Safari's als blauwdruk voor regeneratieve gastvrijheid

"the Future of Hospitality (00:00) Let me see, three, two and one. Welcome to the Future of Hospitality. I am your host, Arjen Nijkerenboom. My guest today is part of the Future of Hospitality and literally. Emma Mueller is a hotel school day student who's already worked in South Africa's luxury safari industry, taken on an internship in Frankfurt and is now diving deep into regenerative hospitality. She's helping shape a new minor in regenerative society. exploring how hospitality can give back more than it takes. Later in this episode, Emma will share why she believes safaris might hold the key to how our industry balances luxury, sustainability, and true community impact. Emma, welcome to our show. Emma Müller (00:47) Thanks for having me today. the Future of Hospitality (00:49) Wonderful. I'm so excited to have you on the show because you are my first student on the show. Emma Müller (00:54) I am. I'm excited as well and I'm excited to share my thoughts and topics about Safari industry. the Future of Hospitality (00:56) ⁓ It's going to be very interesting because no one ever on this show mentioned regenerative society. And when I heard that, that experience, was like, I like that because I'm all about sustainability even more. let's dive into it. If hospitality truly wants to give back more than it takes, where do you think we should start? Emma Müller (01:24) Yeah, I think that's a good ⁓ question to start off with. I think that we need to redefine our perspective and our view a bit on what we in hospitality think is like success for us, oftentimes measured obviously by rev par or occupancy. What are we gaining on return? All of those financial questions. But I think in that case for regenerative society, the small steps are important. So I think we really need to look at, OK, the Future of Hospitality (01:28) and Emma Müller (01:53) what do we want to give our guests and what do we want to give back to our community and that it's not always about occupancy and revenue ⁓ per available room. It's really about what can we do to have an impact and not only just take and balance that out, but really build something that's sustainable and long-term lasting for the community that we work in and the guests that we serve as well. the Future of Hospitality (02:18) Can you give me a little example of what would be a good example of this is where traditional hospitality takes more than it gives back? And then I want to move to the next question. How do we start? So, yeah. Emma Müller (02:32) Yeah, I think that if you look at how hospitality is built up now, and this is not only in the safari context, but in general, obviously, it's a huge resource consumption industry. And it's all to give something back to the guests and maybe also in the future of what guests expect from us will change or is changing already. But I do think that we need to look at, all right, we cannot just be taking and taking if we want to really uplift this hospitality industry, we need to also ⁓ balance this out. So even small minor examples of ⁓ you have these green key certificates in hotels nowadays, that first of all should be the standard, but green key certificate doesn't mean you're actively doing something to give back. just means you're doing less of the damage rather than changing it around, you know. the Future of Hospitality (03:26) That's good way of looking at it. Emma Müller (03:32) You're doing less of the damage, you're not really balancing out any damage that has been done or you're not trying to recircle it around to further move, get it moving. the Future of Hospitality (03:44) Right, understood. ⁓ So what do you think is the one shift that would make hotels move from being sustainable to truly regenerative? Emma Müller (03:54) Yeah, think ⁓ the first where it all starts with is the mind shift. I think that you need to set or you need to have a shift in your mindset because in the end of the day, the actions need to show. You can talk a lot about it, but you really need to just get it moving. And I think it's all about, not the question like the mindset, how do we consume less, but how do we generate more life or how do we generate something that really culturally like in the conservation mind and the human mind gives back. ⁓ So I think that's the shift that needs to happen and then actions need to follow up with everything that you have ongoing. And it can be small steps, know, think like small steps add up to the big picture rather than trying to start big and then it oftentimes fails. It's small steps ⁓ that already can make a difference and in each hospitality or hotel there's that possibility to make those small changes. the Future of Hospitality (04:42) Yeah. Yeah, as well, like they always say, start with yourself. If you start with yourself, then that is a small step to begin with, and then it's easier to follow through on that. That's what I think, make it a global thing. Yeah, ⁓ I agree. Emma Müller (05:04) No. Yeah. I think also you cannot, if you want to go fast, you can go alone. But if you really want to make a long-term impacting, like life lesson learned, you need to have a team that really understands why it's important to continue doing this and get everybody on the same page. the Future of Hospitality (05:23) We're going to do some examples later on. First I want to know what is your favorite safari animal? Emma Müller (05:30) Yeah. Interesting. mean, there's a lot of wonderful animals out there. I think for me, the most inspiring one is a rhino. It's very hard to see nowadays in the nature because of its extinction. But I do think that it's beautiful. It's so majestic and powerful. But they also know how to protect themselves or they've adapted to knowing how to protect themselves because they're in this position now. the Future of Hospitality (05:35) I believe so. Emma Müller (06:00) And I think it's just such a beautiful but also sad symbol of how beautiful conservation can be and how sad and tragic the story is of what's happening in the poaching industry with rhinos. So I think it's beautiful to experience rhinos if you're still able to. the Future of Hospitality (06:20) yeah, I fully agree. It's very fragile, fragile ecosystem with us humans around. Emma Müller (06:28) Yeah, there can be quite some impact, that's true. the Future of Hospitality (06:31) Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's very serious indeed. ⁓ What is a, can you come with a word to describe South African hospitality? Is that different? Do you have a word for it? Emma Müller (06:41) ⁓ I think if you would ask within South Africa, ⁓ there's this one classic thing that stands out. They call it Ubuntu. It's a word that comes from Zulu. It's in the South African culture. It means like, I am because we are. And I think if you would translate it into the English sense, compassion ⁓ is a good word because South African hospitality is so genuine and it's so uplifting. and it really cares deeply. ⁓ So I think English compassion, South African Ubuntu. the Future of Hospitality (07:17) Ubuntu, I like it. I heard about that before. I don't know when, it's been years ago. So talking about South Africa, you lived in different places over the world, right? So what's, you can mention the countries, but what is one lesson from growing up globally that you carry into hospital? Emma Müller (07:31) I have, Yeah, so as you mentioned, I have ⁓ grown up in different countries going from the United States to China, Germany, where I'm originally from, and also South Africa, a major part, which might not be surprising now that I have this topic on. And I think for me, something that I've learned from, I think growing up as a third culture child, you know, you're always trying to adapt, going to new schools, new surroundings, new environments, new people, and you always... crave the sense of belonging. And I think in hospitality it's the same. crave that sense of belonging somewhere that's not your home and you expect to find a bit of belonging in whichever hospitality experience you go towards. And that's what we also often try to serve from the hospitality side, from the working side. So I think that for me is something. that I try to showcase in my hospitality, but also something that I grew up with, always having that urge. Yeah, I think it's just a craving everybody has, you It doesn't matter how it's displayed, but belonging is something so important. yeah, I think that's something everybody, every culture shows it differently. Every culture shows belonging differently, but I think you will see it everywhere you go. the Future of Hospitality (08:57) Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's quite a contrast, think. Being German, you're living in now, but ⁓ in between, South Africa. I can only imagine that's a big contrast, right? Emma Müller (09:15) Yeah, think if you would, I mean, I know there are so many cultures out there, especially, and that's something I learned as well, going back to South Africa and working there, it's a different pace. You have to adapt. You can't expect the same maybe mindset you have in Germany or as a German person, you know, and ⁓ it really, you become adaptable and you learn a lot and also on how to react to the situations of where you're working in. the Future of Hospitality (09:42) Yes. About your internship, was there one moment during your internships that ⁓ shaped your idea of service? Emma Müller (09:53) ⁓ Yeah, I think, I mean, I've done quite some like internships, mainly in the safari industry, but in South Africa in general, obviously now in Frankfurt, very different. ⁓ But I think for me, one of the most outstanding experiences of service was also during the safari lodge, you have so much time and space to create personal interactions for the guests and really create these lasting memories. And just it's a small example, but we had ⁓ guests that were on their honeymoon. and we had friends reach out via email saying they would like to organize a small something for these guests, ⁓ you know, as like, ⁓ welcome to your honeymoon trip. So the guests were on this game drive and then I knew that their favorite cocktails was Bloody Mary's and I had this personal handwritten letter from their friends. ⁓ And I set that up in the, obviously coordinating with the ranger that was driving them in the middle of the bush. So, you know, they were just driving around and you see this one table, two Bloody Mary's. and this handwritten letter. And for them, the woman started crying because she didn't expect that from her friends, you know, all the way overseas. ⁓ And it was two weeks later, the friends actually came to visit the lodge and it was just such a, it had such a lasting impact on them. And it was such a small gesture of service that was easy to do, but for them, it really created like this, I won't forget this moment. yeah. the Future of Hospitality (10:56) ⁓ no, of course not. ⁓ Emma Müller (11:21) I that's. the Future of Hospitality (11:21) beautiful. Well, that was my second question, but maybe you explain it, Ori. I'm going to ask it, What's the most unforgettable guest interaction you've seen during a safari? Was that this one? Emma Müller (11:32) I mean, there's so, you know, there's, feel like there's so many guest interactions that come up. Obviously this was something that I remember a lot because it was really like involving me. But even guest interactions between staff and the guests, Safari is really an industry that you take time to go there. You know, it's not fast paced. You really take the peace and the quiet and you, you have no time feeling and having these guest interactions, like the best thing is when they come back from their game drives and they're so happy about every small thing they've seen out there in the nature that they didn't expect to see. ⁓ And then proudly experiencing and sharing those stories. I think those are daily guest interactions you have that are every time it happens, it's amazing. It's really... the Future of Hospitality (12:22) I can only imagine that is one of the aspects perhaps even that makes this industry, this Safari industry in particular, so exciting because people come back with an amazing experience. I can bet almost everyone and you get to share that experience every time with them. So that must be rewarding. That's the word I think that I'm looking for. Emma Müller (12:48) And it's rewarding and it's also them sharing their joy about, for them it's like as stupid as it might sound, but like it's a daily nature for us to receive these guests and welcome them back. It's part of the daily ongoing operations, you know, in the safari lodge industry. And a lot of the times they might be lucky to see these amazing animals out there. Obviously that's not a guarantee, but you know, there are high chances of that and them coming back. the Future of Hospitality (12:52) Yeah. No. Emma Müller (13:16) Every time from the first Safari game drive when they're there the first day is the best thing. And for them, it's so special and unique because often it's a once in a lifetime experience that they're doing right now. ⁓ just that joy is rewarding. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (13:26) it's I'll put it on my list. I haven't done it yet. It's on my list for quite a while, but it's there. ⁓ How are Safari Lodges balancing luxury with sustainability today? Emma Müller (13:36) It better be eventually. Yeah, I think that's a big topic. It's an uprising topic, especially because a lot of safari lodges that weren't built yesterday, they've been there for quite a while. And so they are obviously in the process of transforming ⁓ to offer that luxury because it is oftentimes, I want to say, like expected or it's part of the market standard nowadays. But at the same time, you have also new lodges or lodges that are being renovated. adapt. ⁓ I want to say the luxury feeling into the eco-consciousness of the surrounding. So they'll adapt conservation-wise to the surrounding. It's not anything outstanding you see in the middle of the cons... like in the nature park. There's obviously regulations and it's... it... it slows down. Like the luxury is really there. It's very down-to-earth. It's minimalistic luxury. It's not... You can't expect like maybe in Las Vegas these... high story buildings or anything. It's just tranquil. It's adapted to the nature. I think that's like where the luxury part comes in. It's obviously high quality often, but it's very blending into the environment. the Future of Hospitality (14:59) I it. ⁓ We mentioned regenerative ⁓ practices, hospitality, society before. What's an example of regenerative practices? You've seen work in the safari industry. Emma Müller (15:13) Yeah, think, I mean, the safari industry is probably one of those industries where you can more easily implement regenerative practices, ⁓ or it's more right in front of your doorstep, very literally. You have conservation and you are living off of conservation in the nature parks. ⁓ think two examples that I've seen, I mean, there's this amazing ⁓ foundation by the Londolozi Lodge. They're the leading example in South Africa. the Future of Hospitality (15:26) Yeah, yeah. Emma Müller (15:41) when it comes to regenerative practices and they've started early on, ⁓ they started a foundation called the Good Work Foundation. And they do, for example, an academy for trackers. So they take ⁓ local children from community and they start with conservation lessons and they show them the importance of what they can build from their home. mean, you're talking about their home and oftentimes this knowledge is not shared with them. A high, high percentage of the people that take these conservation lessons want to go to the Tracker Academy and really get qualified to become a tracker and work at these safari lodges. So that's, it's a small step, but just offering those conservation lessons for children in the primary schools in the local communities already inspires them so much of the things that are out there in the world and of what they can be proud of that they live right next to it, you know, or in the middle of it. Oftentimes that awareness is not there. think that's an amazing one. And then also the Hemmas Fach Rhino Force. It's a rhino force that works in the Greater Kruger National Area. They work with rural schools as well to teach children about the poaching situation. ⁓ And there it's important that they know, because oftentimes poachers might come from local communities because of any money issues they have, or they don't have a stable income and job. And it's really like promoting that they understand what an impact it has if these animals are not there for the safari industry anymore, because maybe your parents can't be working in the safari industry eventually anymore because there's no special, I'm going to say special animals, but no outstanding animals. You know, you have these big fights that everybody counts on seeing those big fives, obviously they're also endangered, these big fights, not all of them, but there is that danger. the Future of Hospitality (17:25) Right, big five, yeah. Emma Müller (17:35) for endangering them. So they do amazing work there as well. I was there for a few days to work with them and go with their anti-poaching unit. And the impact that it has of them actively being on the ground, you can really see the work they do there. the Future of Hospitality (17:50) Really? Okay, that's good. wow. Emma Müller (17:54) And it all leads back to the Safari industry and what the Safari industry thrives on and lives back on. the Future of Hospitality (18:00) How do you see the local community responding to these initiatives? Are they being embraced? I can only imagine they are, but what is your? Emma Müller (18:09) Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a generational thing. ⁓ It really depends on which generation you're approaching. ⁓ Because you might have an older generation that has been there for years and years and they've gone on their daily, you know, jobs and commutes to work and they might not see this impact yet because it's hard to change something that's already been set in place in a mindset for years and years because they didn't know better. So. the Future of Hospitality (18:36) They do not, really. Emma Müller (18:36) It's generational thing. If you go to the primary schools and the local, like the schools where there's children and they're all open and you know, they love having these experiences and even taking them on a grain drive and showing them the animals because that's their full right to do so. You know, they live there. That's, it shouldn't only be for the guests coming to these safari industries, but actually the local communities that work there and they get so excited, you know, and it's so special for them. It's you wouldn't like Safari lodges that also take their staff on game drives. That's a mandatory because you cannot have staff working at a lodge and you have these guests coming back and sharing all their amazing stories and the guests assuming, you know, they've been on these amazing Safari drives themselves because of course, why would they have not? It's just in front of the door. And then they actually haven't. That's, think there's a big difference and it shows. which Safari Lodge is really working with their staff and embracing it or just being there for the guests. So yeah. the Future of Hospitality (19:40) So the lodges you mentioned, because it's all local lodges, I mean, working with the community. And it's only recently, I mean, that this is becoming a thing. What about the big brands that we all know, the big names? They haven't been part of the development at first, but they are slowly entering this industry, this fragile industry. Let me put it that way. So what happens when big brands enter a safari market without local connections? Emma Müller (20:14) Yeah, I think it's interesting you bring this up because it's not really, I think, known yet. It's not out there that big yet. But obviously there are, ⁓ I mean, the biggest example to give now is Marriott. They opened their first one in 2023. They're up in the Masai Mara and Saipan Geti area, so around Kenya and Tanzania. ⁓ And they're coming in with like the Ritz-Carlton autograph collection and creating Harry lodges. the Future of Hospitality (20:23) you Mmm. Emma Müller (20:45) in a place where they have no background or knowledge of, know, they're coming from this big franchise chain brand and what happens or the danger that is there, I mean, one obviously is, are they building the safari lodge where they where it should be located? There's been some discussions about that as well. Are they in the way, you know, you have the great migration, which is a very, very big touristic popular demand up there. ⁓ Are they in the way of that where they're building? mean, there has been some discussions about that, but also now you have brands that have no ties to the local communities, no ties to the culture that's actually coming from there. And it's dangerous because it's dangerous for the local lodges because they bring a big customer demand and they are well known in, let's say the United States. The United States is an big, big customer segment of Safari Lodges. I understand from a customer perspective, you are going to choose a brand you've heard of and you see yourself in and you represent yourself in, but it's dangerous because there's a big gap that can be caused because they're lacking of local knowledge, they're lacking of, you know, authenticity. ⁓ the Future of Hospitality (21:52) Yeah, you know. Emma Müller (22:07) and really having these deep ties to the culture and if you link it back to regenerative society I mean, just have a look on the website. If you have a look at the website itself, there is not a single word lost about sustainability and conservation and things that are really important in that area. And it should be because the Future of Hospitality (22:31) Okay, so that should be the first thing that needs to happen is bringing awareness to these big brands. And so when they enter the market and they want to have exposure ⁓ that they are in that market, they need to at least mention these important things on the website. And they need to, yeah, go ahead. Emma Müller (22:50) Yeah, I mean, obviously mentioning on the website is one thing, it just, you know, but it just, would even like not having anything on the website already shows that it's not there or it's not in progress. Otherwise you would be promoting it, you know, and you would put it on your website. And I think that there needs to, it's dangerous for them to have be in a bubble. the Future of Hospitality (22:57) That's one thing, yeah. Emma Müller (23:19) in a huge industry and, you know, not the Future of Hospitality (23:23) How can we change that? How can we change this? What can we do? mean, ⁓ they obviously know that there is a local party. So they're entering an existing market, a niche market. What is it that we can do or help them? Emma Müller (23:27) I don't think. I you can't prevent these brands from coming because they've seen the opportunity there is just from a business side of view. They've seen the opportunity there is in this niche industry, in this luxury industry as well, and the demand that's been there. So I don't think there's a way of ⁓ blocking them off. And obviously from a business side of view, that's not how things work in this life. But I do think that there needs to be First of all, from government side, there needs to be regulations, especially where this industry is up and thriving. And this could be in South Africa, Botswana, all these countries, Tanzania, Kenya, all these countries that offer it, that really give them a guideline. If you buy a permit or you buy land and you create a hospitality industry, sustainability is not enough anymore. You need to really, from the beginning onwards, when you showcase your business plan, have a plan on how you're actually bringing back added value and not just making less damage. So I think that's one thing that really needs to be set and spreading awareness. mean, there's been activists as well and those are small things, but it has caused a wave in the media and it's actually made people notice, ⁓ Marriott, for example, this is one example, there's Four Seasons and other brands as well, but have entered the safari market. We need to... proactively already say something and showcase them these are examples of what you should be doing because you know media reputation is such a big thing for these brands nowadays as well that that's a way to get to them. So yeah. the Future of Hospitality (25:18) Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, we don't mean so we also need to educate the travelers. But just, ⁓ so there's a lot of work to do. Emma Müller (25:26) Definitely. I think that obviously also leads within travel agencies on really showcasing, hey, these are Safari lodges that actually, like, what is your purpose of going to Safari Lodge? And what impact do you want to have in the end when you leave? You know, do you want the Future of Hospitality (25:44) I think if a consumer traveler is going to explore options and once you start exploring, will hit a website here and there where they talk about ⁓ giving back, being sustainable. And I think there a lot of people that will move toward that. Okay. Who is more sustainable? We're not there yet, but I think that is there is also growing awareness. ⁓ at the moment. Emma Müller (26:16) And it's becoming more more impactful for the generations up and on that are going travelling. They make very conscious decisions now on where they want the Future of Hospitality (26:27) Yeah, which I'm very happy to hear. see that. I really, really encourage that development. Should have happened sooner, but at least it's happening right now. What's one thing ⁓ that you think that hotels need to stop doing if they want to be regenerative? Emma Müller (26:36) Maybe. Yeah, I think ⁓ the biggest thing is really taking sustainability lightheaded and just having it as a checklist of, right, it's a standard now, it needs to happen. I think it really just that mindset shift needs to start being implemented and also having like green certificates, like having certificates about green keys and initiatives. It's good to have, it's a nice thing to have, but it shouldn't be something you're promoting yourself with anymore. You should really start that change and now actively say with every step we make and every choice we make from, it's storytelling, if it's supply chains, how is this helping that we help something thrive instead of making that less damage? So every choice needs to be questioned. And that really only happens if the Future of Hospitality (27:38) Mm-hmm. Emma Müller (27:42) somebody's proactively keeps on saying, all right, which impact does this have? Okay. If we need to do this, what are we doing on the other side that has a plus to it? What balances it out? So yeah. the Future of Hospitality (27:56) What is the most successful sustainability initiative that you've seen in action? Emma Müller (28:01) ⁓ I think... That's a good question. think just from a very simple one, there's a safari lodge in South Africa that was close to where I worked. they ⁓ basically every water that was taken, so every water consumption they had, they really track that rigorously. I mean, water is such a big thing, but it's very small in the view of how an operation works. ⁓ when they track the water rigorously, and the water came from local communities, they made sure that that same amount of water that was taken, the local communities around them had access to. So they built up water accessibility points or water pumps that were not there beforehand and were able to track back how much water they were able to give back. does that make sense from that? And I know you're taking a resource and taking it again, but at least you're creating a cycle where you're ensuring that the communities that you're taking the water from still have further access because these communities don't know how to get access to this water and don't even know at the beginning that you're taking it from their pumps, you know, or from their underwater system, groundwater system. the Future of Hospitality (28:58) Okay, yeah. I think the word cycle, you mentioned the word cycle, I think that's the key word, there needs to be a cycle. ⁓ Whether you recycle a cycle, as long as the cycle is going, then you're on the right track. ⁓ All right. Emma Müller (29:37) Yeah, and I mean, yeah, and that situation, you can even further improve it by actually building. It's not possible in this context of Safari industry, but in any other context, for example, you could make sure that you give back or you grow wetlands and wetland areas. ⁓ So there's the the Future of Hospitality (29:59) How does that work with energy production? Because where do they get their energy from? It pops up. I just want to see what these lodges are doing, because I can only imagine, hey, there's plenty of sun here. Let's use solar energy. I'm just... So how does... Emma Müller (30:16) Yeah, no, mean, so solar panels are becoming more and more of a thing. It's hard depending on obviously which year you're like, which season you're in and also which angle the sun hits those panels. But on the other side, in South Africa, it's quite a big topic because you have electricity cuts, you have load shedding, what it's called, and you have hours, this can be on a daily base, a weekly base, depending on how little the Future of Hospitality (30:21) Mm-hmm. Emma Müller (30:45) electricity is left for the country, they cut off certain hours. And this happens everywhere. So this happens in Cape Town, Johannesburg, in the safari industries, certain provinces will be cut off for electricity, can be three hours, can be six, seven, eight hours a day. And it's to balance out the electricity need in the country. And during that time, a lot of safari lodges have generators, but generators, as we know, are not available. the Future of Hospitality (31:12) On gasoline? ⁓ Emma Müller (31:14) ⁓ Yeah. So how can you reverse that? You need something like solar panels and I think technology and access to technology is something that also needs to be taken into that industry. Because obviously it's a huge cost of implementation and you need to have that access to technology, but I think it's something that needs to be or is upcoming because a lot of lodges realize, all right, if we have these guests, you know, You can over go some hours without electricity, but it's also a service you're offering. And you cannot say you're getting the electricity from generators because that's not the way to do it. Obviously there is a backup generator, but there needs to be something else that you're showing your guests you're getting the electricity from in this way. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (32:04) Yeah, I would say to the big brands, make it mandatory that, ⁓ yeah, make sure you create your own energy. Maybe you can share it with the community. I've seen these ⁓ initiatives years ago when I was working in solar energy myself. That's why asked the question. I've seen this solar energy initiatives in Africa. One of them is Solar Sisters, where they bring solar energy. Emma Müller (32:25) Thank the Future of Hospitality (32:33) into homes where there is no electricity. that's why it came to mind because I was like, how can we make that a give back thing? there's a lot to do that we are really in an early stage that's talking about that we use the word sustainability a lot. Is that an outdated word or do you think, hey, no. Emma Müller (32:45) Yeah, I think. I think it's the way we use it. I don't think it's outdated because we haven't really gotten to the point yet where we can say we are 100 % sustainable in everything we do. I think it's just hard using or it's difficult using the word sustainability for every small action that is done. And I think it needs to be used wisely. Same with regenerative. Are you sure it is regenerative? And how can you back it up? I think it's a how we consume the word a bit. ⁓ So I do think it's still a hot topic because it has to be. ⁓ And if that word were gone, we'd have another problem, but ⁓ it's of how we can back it up when we use it. the Future of Hospitality (33:40) Right, I have a final question. It's 2030, that's five years from now. It looks further, but it's only five years. And the guest steps into a safari lodge. What looks completely different from today? Emma Müller (33:55) Very interesting. I'm trying to imagine it now if I were the guest from a slide. I think that personalization is a big thing so that you arrive and there's nothing like it's like a seamless transition and guests immediately also see and can ask their personal host, I'm going to say it, questions about ⁓ not anymore like what are you the Future of Hospitality (34:01) Yeah, yeah. Emma Müller (34:25) What are you doing to try and go around this topic or this topic, but more what's outstanding for you that you're proactively working on so that these questions are answered and that there's transparency. I think that's something that's very important and upcoming in a generational thing. ⁓ And I think if you look at it, maybe from a creative point of view, I don't think, I think it will be a seamless transition into nature. I really do believe that it won't. that visually it won't be something that outstands anymore and the bigger the better. think it being one with nature and really showcasing that. the Future of Hospitality (35:04) I like that. I like that. That's a, I like that vision of yours. Emma, ⁓ thank you so much for being on the show. ⁓ And this is only just the beginning because we're going to do some more. I really liked hearing ⁓ your vision as we just mentioned, but also about regenerative society. ⁓ I'm a big advocate for solar energy I mentioned before. So that was on my radar for years, but now the the phrase regenerative society. I'm gonna use that some more because I really, really like that. And I'm really glad to hear that a lot of young people are into this. So I'm gonna see you some more. We're gonna talk about ⁓ other stuff about wellbeing soon on a round table with other students and you yourself. Emma Muehler, thank you so much for being on our show. Emma Müller (35:52) Thank you for having me today. Really enjoyed it. the Future of Hospitality (35:55) You're wonderful. And to everyone who's watching and listening, follow us on our socials, LinkedIn, Instagram, and TikTok, and visit futureofhospitality.org, sorry, for more conversations with leaders shaping the industry. Thank you. Okay, that was it. Emma Müller (36:11) Thanks... "