Einblick in das erste KI-Restaurant der Niederlande: wo sich die Technik wirklich auszahlt

The Future Of Hospitality (00:01.154) Welcome to the F &B Advantage, part of the Future of Hospitality, where we unpack what truly creates competitive advantages in food and beverage. My name is Gabi, and I'm really excited about my today's guest, because it is Robin Formans, someone who didn't just talk about the future of hospitality, but tried to build it. At BUNKR in Eindhoven, Robin experimented with AI in-service, data-driven operations, and even with 3D food printing. Later in this episode, Robin will share where innovation truly works, where it falls short, and what hospitality leaders should be paying attention right now. Robin, for the people who don't know your story yet, what sparked your desire to build something that pushes the boundaries of how restaurants normally work? Robin Vromans (00:46.569) Well, sometimes you get an opportunity in a really maybe unusual way. Yeah, what sets a new standard, you know, because if you know what technology might bring and made possible, then you also understand how to look in a different way to hospitality. The Future Of Hospitality (01:12.44) Mm-hmm. Robin Vromans (01:12.724) And that brought us an opportunity at BUNKR. So that's why we decided with a lot of parties to do so. The Future Of Hospitality (01:21.72) Yeah, and what was like the thing at traditional resonance culture that you were thinking, okay, this could be different with technology. What was slightly off in that way? Robin Vromans (01:33.227) Well, there might be different ways that could be a bit off, you know, because it always depends on the person at the table or the person that welcomes you at a restaurant. So we were looking at it in different ways. It's not only just at the welcoming, but it's just a part of the whole hospitality experience. So we were really looking into every detail on what could this technology do and let's experiment with it. it's with a really broad vision on the whole hospitality industry. The Future Of Hospitality (02:15.584) Yeah, and I know a lot about you and I know the listeners probably also know that you worked with a lot of different things in hospitality. And I'm really curious, like, what in your journey into a year, it really shaped your entrepreneurial style within hospitality. Robin Vromans (02:36.075) I think every experience you gain brings something. But especially I've worked at a catering company who also does international catering. we traveled throughout all Europe for horse jumping shows on a really high level. So with a lot of people who like Roger Moore, really high level of guests, so also a high level of expectation. But still we were traveling from Holland with all our staff and all our The Future Of Hospitality (02:43.47) Okay. The Future Of Hospitality (02:58.766) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (03:08.536) Mm. Robin Vromans (03:12.863) tough everything we brought from Holland to places like Monaco to build the whole catering there. it brings a lot of awareness of what do you need to make it a success. Every detail counts you know. The Future Of Hospitality (03:19.0) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (03:28.451) Mm-hmm. Robin Vromans (03:33.907) always have to be on your highest level of doing your job. It brings a lot of creativity. If things go wrong, you have to solve it in a surrounding where you're not known. So that brings a lot of creativity. The Future Of Hospitality (03:41.24) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (03:51.939) Mm-hmm. Robin Vromans (03:52.043) And also lot of energy in a way that, well, it doesn't matter what happens, you never give up. You always come up with a solution. So that's like an operational way, brought me a lot of experience. Besides that, I've also worked five years for a really big company caterer in the Netherlands, which brought me a lot of experience in a financial way and working with all kinds of systems with... The Future Of Hospitality (04:02.072) Thank Robin Vromans (04:19.093) really was something that suited me very well because I was always the person that was diving into all the details of systems. I wanted to know everything on how it works or if we this in, what comes out on that side or yeah, always very curious about those things. The Future Of Hospitality (04:33.752) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (04:38.318) Were you already curious when you were a young boy or is it something that's really amplified when you were in the industry? I'm curious about that one. Robin Vromans (04:46.793) Well, I think it's a good question. If you would ask my family or my friends, they would say Robin is always a curious guy and always really stubborn. that mixture of those two components, I think that it's something that really shapes me in every way of my life. So it's not always about entrepreneurship. It's always on... Yeah, the person you are. The Future Of Hospitality (05:16.876) Yeah, yeah, but I do think it's interesting, right? You're talking about high level performance. It isn't like, like a pressure boy or cooker situation where you need to be creative. But how do you find a balance but with like, experimenting, finding new things, getting the creativity, but also understanding there is a risk that you can fail because you're at that high performance. You don't want to fail, I think. But yeah, how do you Yeah, how do you go about that? Robin Vromans (05:45.259) Depends on the situation, but if I go back to BUNKR and look into that, we never thought about failing. It's only about opening eyes in the industry or look into a new way to the hospitality industry. And if things fail, that's only possible to... The Future Of Hospitality (05:50.083) Mm. Robin Vromans (06:10.517) to do if you're open to to experiment with things, know, because if you are want to try something new and everything goes well every time you try something new, well, what are you learning from it then? So you have to be open to to feel and the way you interact with failure or the way you deal with it. That makes if you are The Future Of Hospitality (06:11.81) Mm-hmm. I feel it. The Future Of Hospitality (06:18.958) Mm-hmm. Robin Vromans (06:39.231) Yeah, suitable for entrepreneurship or not, I think so. The Future Of Hospitality (06:42.924) Yeah. And let's go back to the BUNKR. Like, take me back to the moment you and your partners decided officially to launch the BUNKR. Like, what was the internal debate and yeah, what makes you say yes and the rest? I remember curious about that one. Robin Vromans (06:57.343) Yeah, that's quite a story. So I tried to keep it short because we didn't have a lot of time. know, we are, it brought three parties to the table. The startup company who built the tech side of BUNKR, the owners of the building, it all started with them. So the owner of Good Habits, e-learning company in Eindhoven. They, Yeah, we're looking for a company caterer and they asked my associate, Yuri, also is the owner of the Stas Brouwerij. They already made a nice beer for good habits. So they were looking for just the hospitality guys to do the company catering. And then we popped up with this concept. So it was three parties at the table and we were just thinking about how can we make sure that a restaurant concept in the BUNKR, which is quite a known place for people like you or who did their study at the TU in Eindhoven. But it's not a really common place for restaurant. So we had to figure out a concept or come up with something which is so unique, so Eindhoven, so out of the box to make it work. yeah, I was already... doing some research to what AI could do for the hospitality business. then, yeah, just all of us came together with this idea with the need of a hospitality partner. And everybody was really excited to do so. So we were just pitching the concept. They were really thinking with us about the financial way because, yeah, obviously it's not really normal for hospitality entrepreneurs to do projects like this. So it was really something in the unknown, but yeah, everybody believed in it. So it was in a matter of weeks that everybody said, well, let's go for it. We are so excited. Let's do this. It's such a unique thing. The Future Of Hospitality (08:59.171) Hmm? The Future Of Hospitality (09:12.814) Yeah, and I'm curious, you're launching this new thing in an industry that is quite known to be really traditional. I'm really curious about like, what was the reaction of the guests? What are the reactions of your competitors in Eindhoven? Like, what were those signals that you were getting in the first few months, weeks? Robin Vromans (09:33.639) Yeah, all kinds of, know, if you you look into the responsive guests because we had a lot of eyes on us also with the from the news like television radio everybody was really yeah curious about what is it going to be how it's going to work a lot of yeah maybe guests didn't like the thought of using technology in the restaurant industry and they were telling us well I hope you're going to close within the first month because why are you doing this and it's such a stupid thing you know. Well a lot of restaurants and also yeah competitors maybe or yeah just colleagues in the industry they were really yeah curious and they were always asking questions like The Future Of Hospitality (10:11.853) Mm. Robin Vromans (10:27.057) what are you learning out of it and why are you doing such a thing? So what could we learn from the more common way of running a restaurant on things what you are doing? So yeah, it was really going left or going right. There was nothing in the middle. The Future Of Hospitality (10:37.07) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (10:43.374) Yeah, so the responses were everywhere. Yeah. And, yeah, I'm really curious, like, the people were saying, okay, we don't want like, some of the guests were saying, No, I don't want it. But eventually, had guests in the restaurant, like, what were the positive reactions that you were surprised about? You were thinking, whoa, the tech supported, but the hospitality really works it out. Were there some aspects? Robin Vromans (10:47.474) everywhere. Robin Vromans (11:08.427) Dependent, because we experienced lot of difficulties as well when we launched the concept. We already knew we would experience difficulties because everything we did was in an experimental way. some people didn't understand why you're launching something when you're still in an experimental phase of it. The Future Of Hospitality (11:26.53) Mm-hmm. Robin Vromans (11:37.565) So it always needed a lot of explanation at the table. And then people were more attached to the fact that they were part of an experiment. And then it was like, wow, well, that's something cool, you know. It also brought a lot of insights to our guests on how the hospitality industry could be changed. The Future Of Hospitality (11:49.422) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (11:52.93) Mm-hmm. Robin Vromans (12:03.979) So they were part of it. And yeah, what did it change? Well, as a matter of fact, I didn't change anything to the whole hospitality industry right now, but it did open a lot of eyes and also on, what are we doing when we are welcoming guests at the entrance or why aren't we putting all the time we have from our... The Future Of Hospitality (12:04.248) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (12:13.731) Mm. Robin Vromans (12:29.001) waiters at the table to our guests. Why is it only when they need something? So it did make sure that everybody was looking in a new way of what are we doing? The Future Of Hospitality (12:42.914) Yeah. And if you would look like at one of the tech aspects that you implemented, what would be something you would want or recommend as a visionary for everybody to implement right now where we can like, cut off maybe costs or improve questing experience? What's that one thing that simple thing maybe even to implement that people are overlooking? Robin Vromans (13:06.123) One simple thing is that if you like all hospitality companies do their main purchase at one or two maybe three companies. And all those purchase you can combine into a data sheet. And that's something which is really valuable if you just take the time. The Future Of Hospitality (13:25.55) Mm. Robin Vromans (13:31.529) or maybe give someone, somebody at a time, to dive into those figures. because there are a lot of facts that you can take out of it. Yeah, just to reduce your costs on the purchase side, but also understand why are we purchasing like cleaning cloths at that company. Maybe we should do it at another company, you know? The Future Of Hospitality (13:35.256) Mm-hmm. Robin Vromans (14:01.483) like it's using your common sense, then based on what you get out of your data. The Future Of Hospitality (14:05.858) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (14:10.156) Yeah, yeah. And you learned that at the BUNKR, but you have different venues. Are you also like, implementing the top tech things that you learned there in your other venues? And how is that maybe helping you out helping the margins out or get a guest experience? Robin Vromans (14:29.963) But I think it can be helpful in many different ways because also what AI brought is obviously text to image or text to video or image to video. And what we did at our most recent company, we were making visuals just out of IDs. And with those visuals, we went to the people who built the whole place, like The Future Of Hospitality (14:34.68) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (14:40.866) Mm. Robin Vromans (14:59.947) is what we want. So it also brought a lot of insights in the creative process of thinking how the restaurant should look like and also in creating the whole feeling of the place. It's not always a margin, it's also using the technology in an easy way that everybody already can do. The Future Of Hospitality (15:16.312) Mm-hmm, yeah. The Future Of Hospitality (15:24.494) Yeah, yeah. So it is maybe even helping being more quicker with certain processes, right. So for example, you want to change your interior, you just snap a picture, say, okay, change the tables to green tables. So you can see how how it may be looks. So it's also maybe helping in the decision making, if I heard correctly. Yeah, yes. Robin Vromans (15:43.615) Definitely. definitely. Yeah, it saves a lot of time. So in that way, it's always good for something because you can spend your time in other things, you know, but it's all it's also really good in the creative process just by visualizing things that you have in your head. The Future Of Hospitality (15:52.259) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (16:02.38) Yeah, and like we were already talking about the purchasing. like you can help those margins grow healthier because currently, the margins are bits. Yeah, small at the restaurant industry. So it's gonna really help in that I'm also hearing you make quicker decisions, which is really nice because I do know that a lot of restaurant owners need to make a lot of decisions which takes a lot of time often. So But I also want to dive a little bit deeper in the guest experience, right? We have these guests, they are becoming more tech at funds. The users of chat, GBT are only growing and growing. Social media is only growing growing. What are things that we restaurants can maybe implement to make the guest experience a little bit better or the guest journey in a way? Robin Vromans (16:52.521) Yeah, I still find that a really difficult subject, you know, because what we try to do at BUNKR is bring the whole tech experience to the front of house, but I don't believe in that. It really taught me some lessons in... The Future Of Hospitality (16:57.474) Mm. Robin Vromans (17:11.691) just keeping it at the back of house, you know, and in the back of house, that's where as a hospitality entrepreneur, you can really define on what. subjects you really find important. make sure that your data is usable. Make sure that your cost price calculations of products of, yeah, the dishes you use or the cocktails you make, they need to be spot on. So you can follow everything what you're doing in your company. If you look to the front of house or if you look to the guest experience, the things we are doing is make sure that the systems The Future Of Hospitality (17:26.061) Hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (17:29.528) Mmm. The Future Of Hospitality (17:39.147) And. Mm. Robin Vromans (17:53.863) we are working with and also the guests are using like the reservation systems, but also when people are using the POS systems and they want to have a ticket, make sure that that suits the people you're serving. So. The Future Of Hospitality (18:13.08) Yeah. Robin Vromans (18:14.279) If you are going for a really easy going concept, then tech can be more used in the front of house because expectations or maybe the amount of money people are spending in your place, it's lower. So the expectations are on a other level. If you're more looking into the high level restaurants where people are spending like a hundred euros on the evening. Well, it doesn't suit that well in that type The Future Of Hospitality (18:22.574) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (18:39.843) Mm. Robin Vromans (18:44.203) of businesses. The Future Of Hospitality (18:45.698) Yeah, yeah, I think it's interesting what you're saying, because we do see restaurant owners need to become a jack of all trades, right? They need to be a social media engineer, they need to be a system engineer, they are a team leader, like there are a lot of roles in that way. So maybe also the data within everything is really important. So having the data off your restaurant, understanding the processes, maybe not applying AI or tech directly in things, but understanding what the numbers are. Do you think a lot of restaurant owners are already doing that? Or there's maybe some growth in that? No. Robin Vromans (19:23.115) It's a really easy answer because especially on what you are saying, it's completely true, know, because there are so many different parts of running a business and it's not only a restaurant business, of course, but you cannot be good in everything. that's also really, yeah. The Future Of Hospitality (19:27.639) Hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (19:39.533) Okay. The Future Of Hospitality (19:43.639) Hmm. Robin Vromans (19:49.111) thing on the way we are running our businesses. We are with several people and every one of us is really good in something. So like Juri, my associate, he's really good in marketing and being sharp on all the details and especially also social media or how are things seen by the guests. And like Mark, is more the head chef of all the kitchens and he is really The Future Of Hospitality (19:54.83) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (20:04.088) Mm. Robin Vromans (20:18.945) good in calculating all his dishes and understand how things should be plated and the team feeling. And I'm really more like the, yeah, maybe the geeky Excel guy, know, to attach all the systems and also understand how a concept should feel and be intercepted by the guests. The Future Of Hospitality (20:43.534) think it's funny that you're saying the geeky guy because kind of like maybe, I think even more like visionary, I think you're a visionary in a tech sense in the restaurants and really making some noise in that way. And what I'm curious about is like, what is a moment where you needed to choose between being this visionary being this geek in a sense like like tech heavy and being practical? Robin Vromans (21:11.965) Wow, yeah, I think that's... The Future Of Hospitality (21:13.454) You Robin Vromans (21:19.659) Like every week we needed to overlook what we were doing. Because when I really was following my heart in the way of being a visionary and well... The Future Of Hospitality (21:24.984) Mm. Robin Vromans (21:34.599) applying all the tech details. We really should proceed on that, but still you also have the other guys. you have the devil and the angel. the one side is the devil, really wanted to apply all the tech details. And the other one was like more the hospitality guy and listen to the people, listen to the guests and listen to your staff because they needed to bring it to the table. yeah, it was like a The Future Of Hospitality (21:38.894) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (22:03.235) Yeah Robin Vromans (22:04.553) constant process of redefining what we were doing. The Future Of Hospitality (22:12.78) Yeah, and experimenting also costs a lot of money, right? So you need to have kind of a balance of that. Do you maybe think because we have these amazing hotel schools here in the Netherlands, and we do have great universities like Eindhoven, Delft, you name it, would it maybe be a good idea for them to work more together and see and have experimenting maybe more? Yeah, in the students and at the schools instead of Robin Vromans (22:16.651) Yeah. The Future Of Hospitality (22:41.268) having to experiment directly with gas and having the concepts built like you did with BUNKR. Robin Vromans (22:49.449) Yeah, probably because you always get lot of insights out of all those collaborations, but still, it's always a difficult subject because there are a lot of universities already doing this, already really open for this, but it's always the thing that you're acting with students. The Future Of Hospitality (22:55.693) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (23:01.933) Hmm. Robin Vromans (23:11.103) especially when you look into like the middle classes of hospitality schools, they have to follow some kind of structured programs and it doesn't fit in. Innovation is not always a subject that fits in because it's not measurable and it's not possible to decide if it's right or wrong. And it's more like on a university... The Future Of Hospitality (23:16.974) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (23:24.94) Yeah. Robin Vromans (23:38.153) level, there should be more interaction between companies, maybe also between the branch organization like the KHN, the Koninklijke Horeca. It's like for the whole Netherlands, the branch organization. I think we have to search for those possibilities there between those. The Future Of Hospitality (23:39.278) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (23:55.02) Hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (23:59.992) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (24:06.636) Yeah. Yeah, because I think it's interesting because when people talk about the restaurant industry, the hospitality industry as a whole, to be honest, they are always like, that industry is like behind 25 years. And we do see this this growth of tech within hotels, guest communication, yield management, which is a really big one, right. But we do see the restaurants keeping a little bit behind. But also I have the feeling that sometimes that they Robin Vromans (24:28.49) Yeah. The Future Of Hospitality (24:35.662) of lie to their sales? They're like, oh, yeah, but this is the way we do it. And it should be that way. What is your maybe it's a little bit of course, for your commercial, like, things to say, but what do you think about it? Is it a lie that the hospitality or specifically the restaurant owners are holding themselves up to? Or is it maybe something that's just true, and it needs to stay this way? Robin Vromans (24:59.851) yeah, that's, I think there is not a truth or a lie in it because... The Future Of Hospitality (25:10.264) And. Robin Vromans (25:11.179) Definitely the whole hospitality industry, it's not an industry that walks in the front of everyone, you But there are certain people that really are interested into it, but it's always like a fight also in how many time can you put in to those projects. On the other side, yeah, you still The Future Of Hospitality (25:22.338) No. The Future Of Hospitality (25:38.798) Mmm. Robin Vromans (25:41.145) have to use common sense because you are a hospitality entrepreneur and you have to make sure that your companies are healthy and make money. So it's not like they don't want it, but it's a difficult fit. what I'm always really attending to is to The Future Of Hospitality (25:50.53) Mm. Robin Vromans (26:01.833) companies who are servicing the hospitality industry, like software solutions, like POS systems. I think those companies can do a lot more to make sure the hospitality businesses go faster in a tax-saving way. The Future Of Hospitality (26:08.974) Mm. Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (26:21.442) Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100%. Robin Vromans (26:24.363) Because yeah, why should you be interested in data when you are running a cafe and are really like a social guy talking to all the guests when you're giving them a nice beer? Or why should you be tech savvy, look into AI solutions, your data sheets when you're a cook? Yeah, well. The Future Of Hospitality (26:39.597) Hmm? The Future Of Hospitality (26:49.614) Mm. Robin Vromans (26:50.665) That's not a match, you know, so it needs the geeky crazy guys like me and like us to maybe bring something else to the table. The Future Of Hospitality (27:01.452) Yeah, yeah. And I think it's also important for them to understand the bridge. Why Why do we need the tech and I do think we're currently in an environment that is or at a state in the hospitality industry, which is interesting because we don't see a lot of employees, the margins are getting smaller, people are it is interesting diamond. And when we go back to the conversation, like at the beginning of the conversation, we're talking about creativity, like we have a place that is unknown, we don't have our own stuff, etc. That the lawyer cooking place I think we as restaurant owners in the industry are currently all in a such a moment where we need to be creative, we need to think about out of the box because yeah, there are some constraints getting there and making it a little bit difficult to have a healthy restaurant in the sense in the financial sense, then. Robin Vromans (27:56.971) Yeah, it really depends on so many subjects. So yeah, that's true. is. Yeah. The Future Of Hospitality (28:01.954) Mm. And if you look at this, this boy or cooking place or currently at like, what do you think is the competitive advantage and concept should have? Is it like the food is the locations better systems? Like who is going to win this this boy or cooking place? Who's the restaurants that are going to be standing and thrive? Robin Vromans (28:29.995) Well, I think that the, like I just mentioned before, the companies who are going to win are the companies who really understand how to connect all the data from a restaurant. Because reservations, you have a system for POS, you have a system for your financial backup house. have a system for your purchase. You have a system, but there is not nothing like an overlay that connects all the dots. The Future Of Hospitality (28:45.026) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (28:49.134) Mm. The Future Of Hospitality (28:54.104) Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Robin Vromans (28:59.455) There is something like a BI solution, which is really helpful and it gives you lot of insights, but it's too difficult for, I think, a big group of hospitality owners to understand it and to apply it. So that's something AI brings to the table to make it more understandable, to translate it to The Future Of Hospitality (29:07.16) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (29:15.714) Mm-hmm. The Future Of Hospitality (29:24.546) Mm. Robin Vromans (29:27.883) understandable subjects and it made it possible to just question your company. But it's not yet there and it's such a difficult thing to connect all those different systems because there are a lot of systems and not all of those are possible to connect with two-way API keys or things like that. The Future Of Hospitality (29:50.862) Hmm. Robin Vromans (29:52.639) But I really believe in it, it's within our reach, but it needs a pressure cooking or it needs like something of a new company or a thing to make this happen, you know, because it's there, it's there, you cannot reach it, you know. The Future Of Hospitality (30:09.804) Yeah. It's all in reach. Yeah, yeah, feeling you really like, like I said, like a lot of industries are already doing this, right? So why not? The restaurant industry. I love this. I'm we're looking for a person to connect all the systems and then having time to do that. Always when we talk about future hospitality, we have always one final question which looks into the future. And I think we already talked a lot about the future, right? About tech and about innovation, who's going to stand, et cetera. So I wanted to ask a different question to you, a little bit more personal question. And that is, well, like, where do you stand in 10 years as a hospitality leader, as this innovator that you are? Where is Robin in 10 years? Robin Vromans (31:02.539) I have really no idea. And I think 10 years is so far in the future. The Future Of Hospitality (31:04.622) You The Future Of Hospitality (31:13.868) Yeah. Robin Vromans (31:14.443) Especially if you look into tech, you yeah, you cannot, you cannot even answer a question if you look through the tech glasses in 10 years, because yeah, look back like five years ago and now what's changed. But if I answer it in a personal way, I really hope I'm still doing what I really love to do. That's running all kinds of different hospitality businesses, still have enough time for my friends and my family, my two The Future Of Hospitality (31:40.675) Mm-hmm. Robin Vromans (31:44.397) beautiful kids and still experiment with new things and talk to a lot of people about it. So eyes are opened and we're always open for new chances and new experiences. That's something which is totally me. Always curious, always a stubbornness. What? And just go for it. The Future Of Hospitality (32:03.885) and The Future Of Hospitality (32:11.902) I love that answer. Like, I hope you will be the same and innovative and having yeah, be where you're saying. Robin, I want to thank you for sharing the real story behind bold experimentation in food and beverage in the restaurant industry. Not just efficient, but the friction, the pivots, the lessons that you're telling us, I think a lot of people can learn from that and rethink the model. For the listeners, if you want to more conversations about how to build stronger, smarter, restaurants, F &B operations, subscribe to the Future of Hospitality and join our newsletter at futureofhospitality.org. Because in the end, the real advantage in concepts belong to those who dare to redesign how it works and innovate. Thank you.