'Oude hospitality' is passé, wat komt er nu?

I think COVID was a very hard reset for the industry. I think we had to look internally at how we treated our employees, how we handled business. I think it threw up a lot of challenges. Welcome to our podcast, The Future of Hospitality. I am your host, Arjan Eikeleboom, and today our guest is William Jurney, Global Quality and Implementation Manager at The Social Hub in Amsterdam. William, welcome to our show. Oh, thank you for having me. Wonderful. Today we're going to talk about Hospitality, old versus new, and there's a lot to talk about. But first, tell us who you are, where you're from. I just introduced you, but give us a little insight who you are, and what you've been doing for the past few weeks. So my name is William Jurney. I am about 33 years old. I'm currently based in Amsterdam. I'm originally from London. I moved to the Netherlands seven years ago, and I've been working in the hospitality industry since the age of 16. I've done a bit of everything from independent restaurants to luxury hotels to members' clubs, but currently I work for a hybrid hospitality concept here in Amsterdam as a Global Quality and Implementation Manager. Sounds good to me. We're going to hear more about that. That's The Social Hub. I want to hear more about that. So, yes, again, we talked earlier. What have you been doing for the past few weeks? For the past few weeks. So I recently just got back from a two-week stint in Rome. It's one of our properties that we recently opened up. They needed a bit of support, so they picked up the phone and said, hey, Will, would you mind coming over to support the team? So I've been in Rome for the last two weeks, supporting the team across a myriad of things. Obviously it's a hotel opening, so things are still being established, but I always like to say that I'm a bit of a generalist. I can do a bit of everything. So I basically rolled up my skills. With army knife. Very much like that, yeah. I like that. I like that expression myself. I hate that a lot. So tell me a little bit more about before we dive deep into old versus new hospitality. So what is your role about exactly at The Social Hub? What does that entails? Yeah, so my role, effectively, I would say, has two pillars to it. So the first pillar is quality. So I'm effectively a quality manager. I work with our product and experience teams to define what we want our guest journey and our product standards to be. And then I actually go out to our locations to audit our locations. So I think very much like a mystery guest, but more from an internal perspective. I then make sure that the general managers have all of these insights that they can use to obviously better the experience for our guests. But then I also use these insights to feed into our experience roadmap. So it also helps us look towards the future on what exactly do we need to further develop. The other pillar is basically implementation. So from a strategic point of view, every single year, the company sets out all of the strategic goals that they want to achieve for the year. I focus on anything that affects our operational team, so our GMs and below. And I basically project manage that whole process. So it could be rolling out a new system, a new process. There might be a project that needs to be delivered. I am the kind of operational go-to. So if you work in HR, if you work in tech, I'm your first line of defense saying, okay, we want to do this. What are the steps that we need to follow for this to be successful? So I create a whole implementation plan on how we're going to do it, how exactly do we define success, and then make sure that those kind of insights go back to the right people saying, okay, this was great, or maybe we should change our approach and do this differently. So it's a very highly collaborative role, a lot of fun. There's never a boring day. And yeah, I get to use all of the skills of land. So a lot of fun. Wow, yeah, it sounds very dynamic and very exciting and challenging also. So you're in that role now, but before that, I met you years ago and when you were working at Soho House. So how did you make that move from what you were doing at Soho House? Obviously, you developed a lot of skills that you are using now in your current role, but can you walk us back a little bit? So from Soho House to Social Hub and what's the difference? Because Social Hub is a hybrid. So House is a member's club. You mentioned, go ahead, tell me what... Yeah, so I think this was my first transition into more of a corporate role. Because now I work in headquarters for a company, but I obviously have been working in hospitality since age of 16. So I was at the point where I was like, okay, I've been in quite a lot of operational roles at this point and I want to be able to do something slightly different. I think that's obviously when COVID hit, which was obviously the big reset. So a lot of us were probably figuring out, what is it? We were all stuck at home. We had a lot of time to think. And I think I had that time to think on, okay, where exactly do I see my career moving forward? Because I do think there does come a time when you kind of have to make that kind of transition from being operational, which is very much kind of hands-on to kind of shifting into that more kind of strategic headspace. So during COVID, I briefly moved back to London actually. Because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. So I briefly moved back to London. I remember that, yeah. I was supposed to open the Nomad Hotel, which was one of my, there's very few brands you see and you really resonate with. So I knew that they were opening in London. So I thought, okay, COVID's here. Time to go back to London. Went back to London, opened the Nomad Hotel, but I really missed my life in Amsterdam. And then the social hub had reached out with an opportunity. And I thought, okay, this is perfect. It's something in a different area of business I've always wanted to go back into. And it's back in Amsterdam. So yeah, I thought, let's go. And I've been there for four years now. Wonderful. I want to hear a little bit more about that before you dive deep. That's the fact that you moved back to London and then, oh, I'm missing Amsterdam. What was it exactly that you were missing? I think it was just the Dutch approach to work and the work-life balance. I think I'm a born and raised Londoner. So I think only upon reflection, you could realize how it's the little things that make the difference. So no longer having a 45-minute commute. I think London has an amazing work culture, but I think it's at odds with somewhere like Amsterdam. London, it's kind of you work relentless hours without much, I would say, thanks. It's just kind of expected. It's in the weaved fabric of London is that it's just hustle, hustle, hustle. Whereas the Dutch, I feel, are a bit more kind of like, obviously you work the hours you need to. You might need to work more, but they also believe in being incredibly efficient. And I think they also recognize that if you continuously work all of these extra hours, that will lead to a burnout in the long term, which doesn't help anyone. So it's kind of having that balance of working what you need to, obviously having the additional flexibility, but not working like a maniac that you're not able to kind of see. It's a marathon, right? It's not a sprint. So yeah. Yeah, I just love Amsterdam, to be honest. I totally get it. I mean, I live in Amsterdam and I've also lived in London. And what drew me back was I found London very demanding, very draining almost. It took energy, but Amsterdam, indeed, as soon as you leave the office, you're outside, you're like in a park. You're like, hey, let's have a glass of wine. That's how it feels like. That's what my feelings are about Amsterdam. Let's go to the time since COVID. How has hospitality changed in your opinion since COVID? I think it's changed dramatically. I think COVID was a very hard reset for the industry. I think we had to look internally how we treated our employees, how we handled business. I think it threw up a lot of challenges. I think with COVID, obviously, since it's ended, prices have gone up not only for produce, but for rent. I think the element of work from home has really shifted how people go out and how they use hospitality spaces. Before, we had that very steady rhythm Monday to Friday, the weekends. But I think the whole introduction of the work from home mentality has really shifted how the industry is. And I also think there's loads of various things from countries introducing regulations, like the UK when it comes to foreign workers coming in, all of the red tape. I also think since COVID, it's been very different. And I think also just the way that people view the industry. I think, like I said before, you were in the industry before because it was all about giving it your all. I think we didn't really pay too much attention to people's well-being, if that made sense before. But now, I think in a post-COVID world, people's well-being is now really up there as part of the employee experience. So yeah, I think the industry is obviously having a lot of struggles, obviously, from business to finding staff. And I also think it's just a different approach with a new generation also coming in. I think the Gen Z generation have made it very, very clear. They're not like anything that's come previously. So that obviously comes up with a whole list of challenges for an industry, which I wouldn't say hasn't necessarily changed much, but it was always very stuck in tradition, right? It was always... But that's gone out of the window. This is... So it's very, very different. And I think with that, it's brought a lot of challenges, but a lot of exciting things as well. Yeah, I heard a lecturer just recently say the generation that is now entering the hospitality market is different in every way compared to older generations before, and we need to be prepared for that. So, but that is what I'm hearing is that you are already experiencing that. Can you give me a few examples of what you think that has changed? Just a few examples. I think it's... And I hate using the word sensitive. I don't think they're a lot more sensitive. I think we need to be a lot more conscious of the word and the words and the language that we use, because before, I think it was very much... People could just say something, and you wouldn't necessarily bat an eyelid, but I think what I love about the Gen Z is that they're a lot more conscious of their surroundings. There aren't more... I don't want to say stubborn, it's what's the word. They're very steadfast to their values and what they believe in and how they think they should be treated. They command a level of self-respect, which I think previously your manager could say something which may not necessarily be the most respectful thing, but it was just accepted as the norm. But that isn't the case anymore, I would say. Some people... I think in the industry, people say, oh, the Gen Z are respectful. No, no, are hypersensitive, but I think they're just commanding what they want, right? Which I think is... I think they're more prone to set their boundaries. I think they're... Yes, exactly. They know their boundaries. Which is good development, I think. I think that's a difference before. We never really had the boundaries between work and personal life. We didn't have any boundaries. It was just... This was expected, because I think it was just always what had happened, why it's just been passed down. Whereas this generation, I think, very much, they're willing to do the work, but they have their boundaries, which I think is very healthy to have. I think it's very healthy. I was always like that, and I was like the black sheep, but now I'm happy to see that everyone is... Well, not everyone. You just traveled to Rome, and back you go to all of the social hub properties. Is this a development that happens all over Europe, or is it just in certain areas? I would say so, yeah. I think staff nowadays need to feel heard. They need to feel listened to. I think it's very important that when someone gives you feedback, you go back to them, telling them, okay, I've listened to your feedback. This is what I'm going to do about it. That element of follow-up, I think making sure that there's very clear opportunities for growth because they need to be able to see, okay, where do I kind of go from here? It shouldn't be that they're just working blindly with no idea of what the future might hold. So I think the element of clarity is really, really important. And I just think, yeah, there are a very diverse workforce. It's pretty amazing to see. And there are a lot of fun as well. All right. Tell me, before I go to the next subject regarding old versus new, tell me a little bit more about social hub. What kind of property is it or chain? Well, it's a hybrid hospitality concept. So initially it started out as a student accommodation provider, and then it slowly evolved by obviously having a hotel, introducing co-working, bars and restaurants. So it's very much everything underneath one roof. And I think with the social hub, one of the key themes is that obviously we are, I think one of the first B Corp hospitality groups that actually exist. And it's also balancing that element of profit, but also the aspect of profit for good. So being obviously making a profit, but also contributing to what we say is a better society. So there's a lot of, I don't know how do we say this, a lot of work we do in the local communities in which we're in. We're not just obviously a business that's there. So we do a lot of social related initiatives to kind of give back to the community, which is what I think I find really, really exciting about this brand, because it's not only, yes, it does have a hospitality ethos, and it's establishing itself as a hospitality brand, but the what we're able to do and give back, I think is really, really important. And yeah, I think that's what people kind of look for nowadays, right? It's, you know, how exactly am I able to kind of give back, create that connection since it's a very exciting time? I like that. I like that. So can I, the way I see it, so the locals, it's not just a hotel or a property where tourists or business people come, but it's connected to the community. So also local people come work there or can have meetings. Well, yeah. So I mean, we like to integrate ourselves in the community. So, you know, we make sure that we know our neighbors, we host events, you know, for our neighbors to attend. There's loads of really cool initiatives we're working on at the moment to really kind of make sure that we're integrated into the community and we're part of the community. So yeah. Guest expectations for old versus new. So what I'm hearing in here, what social hub is doing, indeed, it's more connected to the local community, which also means that you cater to the guest expectations, not just to the people who come visit, but also to people around it. Health hospital, no, what shifts have you seen in guest expectations? I think since COVID, I think people are now seeking more of a connection, right? I think now since COVID is introduced, people are in the office as much. So I definitely feel like people are now looking for a lot more connection when they go out. You can see that through the type of events or dinners that come up. I always think it's very interesting. I don't know if you saw there was that time left app that got quite interesting during COVID or now post COVID where you could basically meet five strangers for dinner. Oh, wait, I remember that. Yeah. I think that's a prime example of how people are now seeking a lot more. They're seeking the element of connection and experiences because I do think since COVID's happened, people have obviously had to isolate for a while. For some people, COVID was almost a year and a half, two years. So I do feel like there is the element of connection which people are really chasing now, which we didn't really... I mean, it was there before, but I think now it's even more important for people. Right. That brings me to Soho House because that Soho House is a members club and it's about making connections, meeting people. Has Soho House changed? I mean, you no longer work there, but do you see similar developments there in regards? I wouldn't really know, I think. I think Soho House is very different because obviously it is a members club, so they're very much rooted in communities. So I don't think they would have necessarily seen much of a difference because that's very much their model, right? But I do think that since COVID, you have seen there has been an exponential growth in community-based ideas sprouting up from new types of members clubs to collectives, run clubs. I think there has been in general a big wave of different kind of establishments or things going on that really kind of center around the element of connection. And I also think especially because now, I don't know if they say this generation drinks less than the previous, but a lot of people are now a lot more sober curious. So the people are also seeking connection that isn't centered around alcohol. Because before, I think that was mainly how you would go out and have a drink. So I definitely feel like now with the kind of sober curious movement happening, that people are really finding different ways in which they can connect. That is a big change in London then because London is all about having your drinks after work on a Thursday and a Friday. So that new generation is in for a surprise then. Tell me about how you stay grounded and motivated in all this busyness. How do I say grounded? I think just by remembering that everyone is human, I try not to take myself too seriously. I think I always say that. I take myself away from my job because at the end I always say like I have a job, but if I was to lose my job tomorrow, I'm like any other person. So I don't kind of sit on my high horse or take myself too seriously. I always think about whenever I'm with people, I always make sure people have the best time possible. And also just treat people how I would want to be treated. That's how I basically keep grounded. Have you ever felt burned out, by the way, or taken advantage of in the industry? I think so, yes. I think naturally because I'm always a perfectionist and I never say no. I'm the kind of person where if the job needs to be done, I'll just do it because I'm like, okay, that's it. But it's not always a good thing if you don't learn to have boundaries. And I think like we mentioned earlier, having boundaries isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's one thing I think I had to really learn as I've got older, especially as I've got older. I can't do as much as I used to. So I think the industry can sometimes take advantage of those who are a bit inclined to always say yes to everything because they always want to be able to help out. And that itself can lead to people having a burnout. So I do think that there has to be a point of, yes, I want to do something because I care, but there also needs to be a point where you have to have the self-control to say, hey, I need to make sure there's a point where I stop, otherwise I will burn myself out. And also sometimes that's what makes people a big disillusioned with the industry, right? Because they just get so exhausted from it that sometimes you can fall in love with it. So I definitely think it's about making sure that you find the kind of balance and understanding when you need rest that you actually take rest. It's not a competition. There's no gold badge of honor to say, oh, I've worked so many hours. The most important thing is that you make sure you look after yourself so that you can then look after the guests. You mentioned an app. So I want to build that bridge to tech, to advance tech in hospitality. So what is your, what do you think? Has tech improvements actually helped in hospitality? What is your opinion in that? I think yes and no. I think it depends on how you utilize technology. Obviously, people are implementing technology because of, I think there's ways that you can look at it. You can implement technology to obviously save costs. You can use it to streamline. You can use it to streamline to allow your teams to be able to connect better. So I think tech itself is always, it's always helpful. But I think it's all about how it's used by a business, which is the most important thing. Yes, you can introduce, you know, QR ordering. So it's easy for the guests to be able to order. But if it basically kind of deters away from the experience, that may not necessarily be the best thing because all your staff do is basically just drop drinks. They don't have time to actually chat with the guests. It all depends on how you position it as a business and how you basically utilize it. I think hospitality itself has always been built around people. So technology, in my opinion, should always be used to kind of aid the experience, whether it's the guest experience or the employee experience. But yeah, connection is always there. Yeah, it's losing the human touch. That is the big challenge, I think, for hospitality. Another question about staying true to your identity, because in this fast-paced times that we're living in, and advanced tech coming in, I mean, brands need to stay true to their identity. How can brands stay true to their identity as they grow, you think? I think it's about, I think there's always a cusp, right? I think it always depends on how big a company gets. I always think, you know, there are those kind of stages where you go from being founder-led to then having a board and then being exponentially to a certain size. I think it all depends on the business and how exactly they kind of see it. At the end of the day, some things are inevitable, but I think it all goes down to the vision of the brand and how they perceive themselves. You know, staying true to your identity is definitely a choice, whether you decide to stay true or not, totally up to the ones at the top. What do you think brands should focus on to stay relevant? What should they should focus on to stay relevant? I think now it's all about making sure that you look after your people and also understanding what the guests want. I think in this ever-changing landscape, you need to be very aware of what your clientele and demographic want and what they need and be willing to adapt. I also think making sure that you look after your team, I think, especially in this kind of climate where, you know, finding staff is becoming a lot more difficult. It costs so much money to train new people, so I always think that you need to really focus on retaining the staff that you have, making sure you look after them, making sure you provide opportunities for progression, and that itself will help you as a business achieve what you want to basically achieve. Right, and what keeps you inspired after 16 years in hospitality with different brands? Oh, what keeps me inspired? I think because I love the hospitality industry, because it's so multifaceted. You can do anything. I mean, there's so many different layers of the industry, layers of complexity, you know, from running a market store to running an independent restaurant to working in Michelin Star to Five Star. You know, you could go work in a resort on a tiny beach in Hawaii if you wanted to. You know, there's a universal language amongst hospitality, which is all about looking after people. And I think to this day, I never ever get bored. I think, you know, if I ever feel like, oh, I want to try something new, there's always something I can try or do. And I think just the fact that I get to work with people, even now that yes, I do spend a bit more time behind a desk, I still get the balance of about to just embark now on a five, six weeks trip, five, six weeks trip across all of our hotels in Europe where I'm not going to be buying my computer, but I'm going to be with the team. And I think that's yeah, something you can't buy. I could never see myself in a traditional Monday to Friday, nine to five. Keeps it dynamic, and it keeps you alert. And I mean, you're learning along the way. Yeah, and just to and I think you feed off people's energy as well, which I think is really, really important. You know, you could be having a bad day, but it could be someone who just comes over in the way it's the way they greet you, which could turn everything around. Right. Why do you think hospitality in general is heading into in the next few years? I think hospitality will, I think it depends. It's very difficult to say. I think there's a lot of variable factors. I think the way that people eat and drink is obviously changing a lot. And that's obviously due to external factors such as the economy. You know, if people aren't making money or don't have disposable income, you know, they're less inclined to actually go out and socialize for the ones that do go out and are able to afford it. They are looking for a particular experience, right? You know, they're looking also for value for money. I think staff itself is a very interesting topic. We know that the demand is growing for hospitality is in there's more and more places growing appearing, but we know that there's a shortage of actually staff. So it's very competitive. And it's also just competitive to how do you stand out amongst the noise? So it's, I think no one, no one really knows where the industry is going. I think it will always survive. I think it just depends in what shape or format is what we need to kind of be ready for. But if the industry's taught me anything, it's that we can handle anything. We're very, very flexible. We learned some things over the years. What advice would you give to someone new to the industry? What advice? I would say that the industry is very broad. I think you need to find out what is your kind of niche and what is it that you like? I think sometimes people have a experience of hospitality and it may not necessarily be the most positive and then they just kind of roll it out as an industry. So I definitely think that you should be curious, try to experience as much as you can. And just to enjoy every single day because nothing lasts forever. I think soak up as much knowledge as you can from the people around you. I think I am only as good today as the people I've worked with. So I definitely feel like make sure you ask, there's no such thing as a stupid question in hospitality. I think trying to know as much as you can is a very, very valuable tool and asset to have. And yeah, just have fun because it's an amazing industry to be in. And set boundaries. And set boundaries, yes. Why is words? William, thank you so much. It was very inspiring to hear your experience and your insights. Oh, thank you, Aryan. Great being on the show. Yes, thank you for being.