Hostmanship: die Ausbildung der Führungskräfte von morgen im Gastgewerbe

"Marco Ten Hoor (00:04) Okay. the Future of Hospitality (00:05) And you prepared least you have some slides I can still Or don't Oh no, I don't to. But if you say... Because you said it me, I'm to... Otherwise I have some slides you can show I say... Whatever rock your boat. Look, if you say... People might it's handy if we one or two slides and you say... This is part of the new... Marco Ten Hoor (00:10) Yes, you don't that with you now, do you? Oh, I can grab this. Wait a I have to go. the Future of Hospitality (00:35) I'll it off and don't to edit it. No, doesn't matter, it's running. But I'll just start and then I'll you in there myself. What do Marco Ten Hoor (00:40) And I can show that slide. Can I put in... ⁓ the Future of Hospitality (00:49) You did it last time, with the very handy scene. You say I can just write I can just see from a distance how that should work. Marco Ten Hoor (00:58) yeah, but I was four teams. Okay, have to check that. yeah, I see it already. the Future of Hospitality (01:01) yeah, but that's not You just I have some slides and... you that you use now, then you that out. Or otherwise... You have enough to tell, I know Okay, I'm just to start. Three, no, three, two, one. Welcome to our podcast, The Future of Hospitality. I am your host, Arjen Eikje de Boon, and today our guest is Marco Ten Horne. He's the director... Marco Ten Hoor (01:16) Yeah, okay. the Future of Hospitality (01:31) of the Academy of Leisure, Tourism and Hotel Management, also known as the Hotel School in Stendon, Friesland. So we're going to hear from Marco how he has made major changes to the way to the new way of preparing students for their hospitality journey and why this is so incredibly important. But before I introduce Marco, I have three questions for him. There we go, Marco, small boutique hotel or a major chain you're familiar with. Marco Ten Hoor (01:55) Okay. Small boutique. the Future of Hospitality (02:03) All right, we're to hear later on maybe why early check in or late check out. Marco Ten Hoor (02:08) Late checkout. the Future of Hospitality (02:09) check out and AI is it helpful yes or no okay thank you Marco welcome to our show Marco Ten Hoor (02:13) yes. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. the Future of Hospitality (02:20) Right, we warmed up a little bit. what I want to ask you is who is Marco away from? And I already introduced you a little bit, but tell me a little bit more about yourself. Marco Ten Hoor (02:31) My name is Marco, I'm the Academy Director of the Hotel Management School in Leeuwarden and it's outstanding for eight years now. ⁓ I'm from a hospitality family, the fifth generation and I'm also extremely proud because my daughter just graduated as a Hotel Management School. The sixth is coming up, yes, she's now going for her Masters first. the Future of Hospitality (02:52) So six generations in hospitality now. Marco Ten Hoor (02:58) And my wife also worked in the industry and we met each other in the industry. So it's a bit of a way of life, I think. the Future of Hospitality (03:10) Okay, let's dive deep into that right away. ⁓ Sixth generation, which was the first one? Marco Ten Hoor (03:15) My great great great grandparents, started and that's the story for my parents. So I didn't, I never met them. They started with, and that's how you call it in the Netherlands, it's a cost house. So it's like a boarding house. Yeah. So people, they were workers and they lived there from Monday to Friday. And then during the week, they went home and then, yeah, my, the Future of Hospitality (03:31) boarding house. Yeah. Marco Ten Hoor (03:44) grandparents or great grandparents, they had a large house with eight or ten rooms, I believe. And then the people were sleeping there and eating in the kitchen. And that's how it started. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (03:58) Wonderful. And then, well, you're a great great father, you're my... Marco Ten Hoor (04:00) And then, yeah, my parents and my great-grandparents because I met my, I know my great-grandparents because they all got the age of more than 90 years old. And that was the first hotel we actually had. And that was a small hotel ⁓ in Nijmegen in the Netherlands, a Wouwe hotel. And I still had pictures of that. And then you see, you know, the staff with the white aprons. The chefs were really the big hats. And then my grandparents started to work. had a few companies and that was basically the most of the time when I was in my younger years. And I don't think it's good if you tell it now, but I spent the top of my credit of my grandparents. Yeah, I loved it over there. So, and my mom always said, the Future of Hospitality (04:33) Yeah. All right. Marco Ten Hoor (04:57) He's not allowed to be at the front of the bar. But I always, when my parents were away, my grandfather always just come and started to tap draft beers and things like that. yeah. And my grandfather was always in the kitchen. And the funny thing I always remember is the big ⁓ pot of meatballs, you know, on a little light and then... because there was always meatballs in the pie. It's unbelievable. yeah, that's my first... the Future of Hospitality (05:31) Old school way I remember well I do remember the days indeed because I started off just as early I think we talked about it before but indeed ⁓ that was the thing back in the days having meatballs in your bar and with mustard big meatballs with mustard Marco Ten Hoor (05:44) Yeah, with Moscow, yes. Yeah, and there were all little... How do you say that in English? People were paying once per month, so there were all little cards when you put on how many drinks they had, and at the end of the month... Yeah, yeah. the Future of Hospitality (06:01) Okay, the tab, they kept the tab for a month. That was the thing at the day. You could not even have a tab for five minutes here. You need to pay up front almost. Marco Ten Hoor (06:09) No, no, at that time, because when there was payment day, it was like the salary day. And then they all came to the bar, remember? And they handed over the debts they had with my grandparents. the Future of Hospitality (06:23) Incredible. So hospitality is in your genes, in your blood. I mean, you cannot deny it. That's what it is. Your daughter just graduated. She is following the footsteps of her ancestors. So let me tell you, you started early as we just discussed. And ⁓ so it didn't scare you away. You went to the hotel school yourself. Can you tell me a little bit about that step and how you moved on from there into the hospitality industry? Marco Ten Hoor (06:28) Yeah. Yeah, I always had to work with my parents. My parents were always working. They had hotels and restaurants. So when I was 10, 12, I already started to do the dishwashing and the stewarding at that time. And I was not allowed to be the son of the boss. I was one of the staff members. So then you have to work extra. I always said to my parents, that's how it started. But to be honest, I was planning to study history because I was a bit fed up with it, I think, because the family only could talk about hospitality and about the business. the Future of Hospitality (07:21) Yep. Yep. Okay, yeah, I get that. Marco Ten Hoor (07:40) But, ⁓ and then my father always said to me, yeah, we will learn how the business runs. We will learn you everything. And I thought, no, no, no, I'm not going to do that. So I said, I want to study. And then a bit of pressure of my parents, they said to me, you go to a vocational school first, so the Middelware Hotel Management School. And I thought, okay, and at that time you listen to your parents. I did and that was the best decision they made for me at that time. ⁓ the Future of Hospitality (08:16) So what made it feel, because how did it, because I want to learn, you wanted to study history, they sent you to hotel school anyway, and that completely turned you around into their footsteps. Can you tell me a little bit, what made you do that? What was it? Marco Ten Hoor (08:21) Yeah. Yeah, because I really don't know. To be honest, I was thinking about it a lot. Because I really... ⁓ People tell you a lot, and that was what I love about history. The history when people tell their experience and things like that. And I always find it shame that my daughter doesn't like history because I always tell her history tells you a lot about the future. the Future of Hospitality (08:58) Yep. Marco Ten Hoor (08:59) ⁓ but, ⁓ and then what you see in our industry is that people tell you a lot. It's, you're the best friend for five minutes, I think. And sometimes ⁓ they give you information you don't want to know. You don't have to tell me that, but anyway, but you, and if you have really, ⁓ and then I saw you can really make a difference and it's not about the serving or. the Future of Hospitality (09:11) like that phrase. Marco Ten Hoor (09:27) But really it was about the connection with people at that time and why they visit you, why they all have reasons. And sometimes it can be a cheerful reason, but it can also be a sad reason that they have to be at your restaurant or hotel. So, yeah, that's what I really liked, the virality and the diversity of the people and to serve. I really, I love to be... the Future of Hospitality (09:50) Mmm. Marco Ten Hoor (09:54) to serve. I see myself also for the good cause and I see myself always as a servant leader on that front. the Future of Hospitality (09:56) For the good cause, yeah. ⁓ I like that. I like how you say that. Back in the days, there were only a few hotel schools. Yeah. Marco Ten Hoor (10:07) Yeah, had three. Hotels called The Hague in the Netherlands was the oldest one and the first hotel school of the Netherlands. And then you had the hotels called Maastricht and Lillewater just started. ⁓ So that was in 1987 and 88. Then they started the hotel management school program because the Netherlands, yeah, the government said there is room for one more school. the Future of Hospitality (10:32) Hmm. Marco Ten Hoor (10:37) And the Hotel School The Hague is a public school. It's in the, Maastricht is Catholic and the foundation of Leeuwarden was Christian. So the Christian school. And that's why we got the, yeah, that time the school got a license to become a hotel management school. So, but we were the underdog of the schools to be honest, yeah. the Future of Hospitality (10:47) ⁓ Okay, tell me why. Marco Ten Hoor (11:03) Because we live off the hotel management and that's still the experience I have. It's a quite traditional and classic approach, a classic way. ⁓ what you saw, the foundation of the hotel management school in Lillwater was that we want to do it differently. at that time, were the first one who started with problem-based learning and case-based learning. took over and they are very down to earth and just watch and see what's going on and then act on it. So I always say we can be more proud of what we do and what we did in Leeuwarden. yeah, so you saw the difference and you saw the hotel school, The Hague, it's very business like, it's very, you become a general manager and I think that's not the purpose to be in hospitality to become a general manager. And in the strictest gastronomy, the gastronomy of food and beverage. And Lillard was always about innovation and differently. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (12:22) Okay, never okay, that's good Marco Ten Hoor (12:24) That was the foundation of how they started in ⁓ 87, 88. the Future of Hospitality (12:27) Hmm Right, we dive into that in a minute because I really want to know how it goes nowadays, what the difference is between then and now. when you studied at the hotel school, you did some internships as well yourself. Can you tell me a little bit? Marco Ten Hoor (12:43) Yeah, yeah. I did my internship in London and started as a Scandic Crown Hotel in London, Houston. During my internship, became an independent hotel, Houston Plaza, because the investor got some troubles probably with Scandic. And then immediately later on, we became Hilton. So it was really ⁓ a huge, for me, huge mind shift how quick that goes when you were 19 to 20 years old. And then you think, my God, what's going on? Because... I was learned that foundation was by the family. It was all about managed by that. then, okay, then it was this, then it was that. So it was for me, yeah, really eye opening how the industry, especially the hotel world works. And apparently not a lot has changed to be honest. the Future of Hospitality (13:40) Is that why you... No, no, indeed, the hospitality industry is, I mean, the way you provide hospitality, of course, still the same, but it's taught differently now. And we're going to talk about that. So why did you move into education and you want to change how it's taught? Why is that? Why was that? Marco Ten Hoor (14:04) Yeah, it was because after I worked in hotels and I also became a general manager of hotel and then I started to work for an agency as interim manager. when there were troubleshoots and things like that with a huge task. And then I was always in contact with my old school. And then the board of directors at that time called me and they said, do you want to do an assignment for us? And I said, yeah, that's fine. I will do it. Yeah, I always have. I always did all kinds of projects. And I thought, ⁓ education could be nice. And so that's how it started. And that was in 2004. And the Future of Hospitality (14:51) Why did they call you for to do that? Marco Ten Hoor (14:55) I don't know. To be honest, I never asked them to be honest. No. No, because I asked them. Because it was about the network. And maybe my parents, I don't know, I was like, yeah, but you can do this, you can do that, don't look differently. And why is it still like that? Because we did that 30 years ago. So maybe that triggered them to say, okay, can you... the Future of Hospitality (15:00) my gosh, you shoot up, I wanna know why. Marco Ten Hoor (15:23) would you like to set up our learning companies for the students? And I said, yeah, that's nice. Because I saw the traditional way of practice in the hotel management school. I said, but you have to change that in a real world, because this is not a real world with you teaching. the Future of Hospitality (15:40) So you thought there was something missing from... Okay, I want to know a bit... What was the number one thing that was missing in your opinion? Marco Ten Hoor (15:43) Yeah. Yeah. connection with the outside world. the Future of Hospitality (15:53) Very important. Yeah, I see what you mean. That was missing? Really? Yeah. Marco Ten Hoor (15:59) Yeah, because we were still traditional. This is the kitchen and then you book and there is people that book the table and you cook four course meal for them and you were two students who were serving and it was like how it always was and all the hotels did the same and I said, no, if you want to make a difference and connection with the industry, you have to make a real company of it. with lust and profit and everything related to that. And that's a huge challenge to do that because you're a part of an education system ⁓ founded by the government and how can you do commercial activities? said, but this is how you it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, with the coaching and it were all... the Future of Hospitality (16:42) Yeah, how can you make it a bit more flexible so it fits into the industry that way it should without giving up your guide rails? Marco Ten Hoor (16:54) practical instructors and they worked in the industry and but they never went back to the industry. So they worked for a couple of years in the industry and they were teaching what they were how it was now at that time. said, listen guys, the industry has changed. you have to adapt, you have to change, otherwise it's not working. So that took me a while. So I started to do the assignment for two years and then I stayed for eight years. So I started to... the Future of Hospitality (17:28) Okay, so what made it successful? So you made a change. I really want to understand. So they called you and you agreed, yes, we need to make some changes. You made some changes. You did that for two years. ⁓ The connection, you mentioned the connection is very important, which I fully agree with. ⁓ And I already see a bridge that we can build to the modern way, the new age of education, because the newer generation, that's my personal experience, are more... Marco Ten Hoor (17:49) Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (17:57) more or less a little bit more detached from connection. you know, and that's not their fault. mean, that is probably social media, probably online, being online all the time. So Marco, in your words, you made that change two years later, and you stayed for eight years. What changes, can you name one, two or three changes? Yeah. Marco Ten Hoor (18:01) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The change was that we were... because I don't know the English word for that, but it was in the Stichting. Okay, and we went to a commercial company, so we changed it in holding. So that was first, okay, so on paper, the governance, good governance, everything was organized. And then I let the industry coming in and telling them... the Future of Hospitality (18:32) I should share shit. Okay. Marco Ten Hoor (18:50) how do industry work? So it's a 24-7 business. It's not from Monday morning, seven o'clock to Friday and then you're closed. If you have a hotel, you have a catering restaurant or everything, it's 24-7 business. So I also changed the... the Future of Hospitality (19:06) You Marco Ten Hoor (19:13) employment agreements. And there was a long journey before you can change that in the Netherlands. But I said, no, we need to change that because otherwise you don't give the real education that's needed for the industry because you we like a simulation program for the real world about the real world. So do we have to do this? And then what I did is bring in visiting chefs, bring in other people about the systems, hotels and started to make, from a network I had, started to make agreements with them that they came to us all the time and tell them what was going on in the industry. so step by step we changed that. then you also have to prove that you have ⁓ education quality, that you don't just... ⁓ a company making money on behalf of students or things like that. So, and believe me, my staff costs were so high because you don't have one head chef, you had five head chefs. Yeah, because they all do shifts on their own. It's totally different. Then I started, we also had like a meeting and events office and I said 75 % of our the Future of Hospitality (20:09) Yeah. Okay. True, true, true. Marco Ten Hoor (20:33) events that we organize should come from the outside of the school and not inside. So we started to organize events for companies. But they should embrace students because you also should tell them, OK, we're slightly cheaper, but we can also make mistakes. The students are allowed to make mistakes. And if you sell it like the Future of Hospitality (20:46) Yeah. course, that's how you learn. Marco Ten Hoor (21:00) they are part of the education of the future, they embrace it, they love it. If you're in a restaurant and you drop wine on somebody's clothes and it gets closed, you have all kinds of problems and what are you going to do? you have to solve it and you have to offer everything. But if guests know you're a part of their education, they react totally different. the Future of Hospitality (21:31) Interesting. Marco Ten Hoor (21:32) You're still learning, don't mind, it's okay. And then of course we still ⁓ paid for the dry cleaning and everything because we told them, the students are called, how are you going to solve this? It's not that you make the mistake, but that's how are you going solve it? Yeah, and that was, and I always remember my grandfather always said that, it's not about the problem, it's about the solution. So how are you going to solve it? And how is your team? the Future of Hospitality (21:35) Right. The more important is how are you going to solve it. Marco Ten Hoor (22:01) going to react on you when you make the mistake. ⁓ the Future of Hospitality (22:06) So you really helped students this way by developing their operational skills early on. I like that. Marco Ten Hoor (22:11) Yeah, I call it always the soft scales, much more than soft scales, it's the development on that. the Future of Hospitality (22:16) Yes, soft skills, yeah, soft skills. What are hard skills? Marco Ten Hoor (22:22) Yeah, that's the knowledge and everything, how you do that. But the communication and connection with people and true connection, real connection, that's the soft skills. And now I call it hostmanship, but at that time I said soft skills. We have to develop soft skills. It's all about soft skills. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (22:26) Okay. Right, right, right. Soft skills, hard skills. Yeah. So instead of classrooms, if I can put it that way, you brought entrepreneurship into practice. So how did people respond to that? mean, students, other teachers, the school, the board. Marco Ten Hoor (22:51) Yes. They were quite open for it. That was good. Good to see only that your competition, your colleague hotels, they thought, wait a minute, you're going to the market. I said, don't forget, you also need them later on. So you want them to be prepared. I always with the learning companies, I was always open and transparent about what we did and how the figures look like, because I'm not here to make money. I'm mayor. the Future of Hospitality (23:01) Hmm. Marco Ten Hoor (23:28) to make sure that we have well-educated future leaders in hospitality. the Future of Hospitality (23:34) Yeah. Wow. Okay. Cause yeah, what I, what I, when I, what I remember is indeed, ⁓ also I used to work for a moment in my career at a bank and I had quite a few colleagues that came from the hotel school. And that's what the reason was I found out later is because they were very business oriented. Yeah. So how do you combine that? Because that is really good thing. I mean, that turned me into like, Marco Ten Hoor (24:02) Yeah, so this is... Yeah, I know, that came later, to be honest, because I only was responsible at that time for the practical education, so for the skills and the soft skills and everything. And that was my only job. And I was not academic involved at all about academic programs and scheduling research and things like that. ⁓ the Future of Hospitality (24:04) A Swiss Army knife. Yeah, yeah, Marco Ten Hoor (24:31) I just did what I did, I said. And I said the industry of the practice should be fun. They should enjoy it because that's when they go on the internship, they're completely prepared to run or to do what they have to do. And so I was not involved with the whole academic program. That was still, yeah, later on. the Future of Hospitality (24:35) Mm-hmm. Marco Ten Hoor (25:00) The only task I had was make sure practical education was in order and future proof. So that's what I did. And then after when I ⁓ got the distinctive feature on real world learning and with the only hotel management school on real world learning. that means that ⁓ what they do is real. It's not like just a simulation or whatever. the Future of Hospitality (25:20) Real world learning. Marco Ten Hoor (25:30) And the industry, there's a strong connection with the industry and everything what we apply. ⁓ when I achieved that and I thought after, that was in 2011, not 10, and then 11, I thought, I need to move on because now it's enough. I was planning to do this two years, but I really loved it. I loved the students. I loved it. the industry, thought it's time to go because in education in the Netherlands every four years you get a new board of directors and I thought, no, I'm done with that. ⁓ And then the opportunity came for Hotelskoe de Heeg. because they saw what's going on in Lillewater and I thought okay we also need a little change on that one. But I underestimate it's a totally different school. Of course we all have the same degree but then what I really learned is culture also matters and foundation. the Future of Hospitality (26:33) it is. Marco Ten Hoor (26:47) So that's, and they really love to be the classic traditional business school. And I thought, okay, yeah, after three years, is not my cup of But I learned a lot because that was my way to learn because they didn't have the separation of practical in a different business environment. So I learned a lot about the academic program. And then at that time they had an academic dean from Cornell, Peter Starr, never forget him. And then I saw, OK, this is how the academic world works. You need research, you need foundations, you need all those before you can make a change. And then it takes another two or three years. So, OK, OK, this is what it is. And so and yeah, and then I started in. the Future of Hospitality (27:18) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Marco Ten Hoor (27:47) In 2017, I went back to Lilwader because they asked me, I think we need to go to a new direction with the hotel school, but also on an academic level. And then I... Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (27:59) All those years have paid off. saw it. I mean, just like you said, it takes a few years. mean, was visibility. There was clearly something that worked in your approach. And so you. Marco Ten Hoor (28:03) Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. And I was the first, I was the first director of a hotel management school who worked in the industry, also went to the hotel management school and I have my master's degree and everything, but they really couldn't understand that they make me the director of the biggest hotel school in Europe. ⁓ With no research background, no academic backgrounds and yeah. the Future of Hospitality (28:34) But you did. They hired you. And that was only two years before COVID-19. Tell me a little bit about how you handled that because that was the biggest challenge for all schools around the world. And you have implemented a new way of education, of new ways. So let's pick up from that moment because students were... Marco Ten Hoor (28:36) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, because when I really got an assignment from my board of directors and they said really the new age of education, what would you like, what's your vision? And that took me one and a half year also to prepare everything. And then in 2020, January. So I presented in 2019 the whole plan, the game changes in hospitality and beyond the new way of education. And we will start in 2020, in February 2020. We started with the first intake and that was around 150 students. And then we added up in September 900 students. And then in that year also in 2020-21, the rest of the students and that was around 1500. So in total, I had to change everything in two years and 3000 students in the new program. So I started, you know, and if you can't sell it internal, you can't sell it external. So it's a huge campaign, everything preparing, everything was all smart. I ⁓ arranged a new board of an advisory board around me with people from the industry. And we started 2020 and there was still resilience. There was still, it's not going to work, we're not going to do that. How is it? ⁓ no. What's the research background? How is the academic? What? doesn't ever. Yeah. But we started and then March had to close the school. the Future of Hospitality (30:38) ⁓ yeah, lots of questions. Yeah. Marco Ten Hoor (30:48) And to be honest, the funniest part of the good part was that I already started that we are going to do blended learning. So I already changed in 2019 all the staff with laptops and not with a desk anymore and an office. we have already, I changed the whole building and work open workspaces and things like that. nobody had, so everybody had already had a laptop and everything. And then I saw, ⁓ and we were preparing a lot, and so we had a lockdown on Thursday evening. And I called my team, my management team. I said, please come to school, all of you. Yeah, we come. And we call, I said, Monday we're online. And they look at me, I said, Monday we are online. the Future of Hospitality (31:41) Okay. ⁓ Marco Ten Hoor (31:43) And a ⁓ friend of mine ⁓ got a marketing, an online marketing company and with also some studios and said, we are going to be in the studios. We have to be online and we have to reach the students and make sure that all the teachers are in contact with their students. And we just did it. And he said, the only purpose now is be online and connect in contact with each other. That's all about that. And the good part was also that never waste a good crisis because nobody knew what to do. And they all thought it would take two, three weeks. It took us two years. the Future of Hospitality (32:28) Yeah No. Marco Ten Hoor (32:37) So nobody knew. you could, there was no research behind it. There was nothing. So I thought, this is my moment. the Future of Hospitality (32:45) This was in your vision. I mean, they gave you they gave you carte blanche to go ahead. Marco Ten Hoor (32:47) Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead, go ahead, be in contact with your students, be in contact with and they were not all nobody knew what to do. How education online come on. If you see the first online classes, it was unbelievable, unbelievable. And not only us, and if one education is going to tell me that the quality was still the same. the Future of Hospitality (33:19) wasn't. How fast did you change? How fast were you able to get to the old level, to the level that you were supposed to be? How quickly? Yeah, during that moment. Marco Ten Hoor (33:20) It wasn't. Because of the ⁓ Yeah, it took me three weeks to be online. No, to be online. And we had to bring back, because I had 1500 students all over the world. And to bring back them to their home or to the Netherlands or back to where they originally come from. But to be online three weeks, the whole change took me two years. Of the whole other education system. the Future of Hospitality (33:41) that's quick! Mm-hmm. Okay, so yeah, that's quite an impactful change. ⁓ Marco Ten Hoor (34:07) Yeah, and normally it will take you four to five years. So it took me two years. the Future of Hospitality (34:11) Yeah. And then the COVID crisis ended, but you implemented all these changes. Did you maintain that way of ⁓ operating? Marco Ten Hoor (34:15) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, first of all, I make sure that the community was coming back to the schools because what you saw is that students also learn from each other. So if because if you are not well dressed and you're not well dressed, make sure that you prepare yourself. So what you saw, the hotel school was always one life bubbling environment. But everybody loves to be at school and now they didn't like to be at school because now I can stay home. Why can I not follow it online anymore? And that's what I changed immediately. We're not going to be online for the coming year. Make sure to come back to school. We need to meet face to face. And of course there were certain circumstances. We did some online, but basically make sure there is connection with each other, face-to-face connection and celebrate every time at school. So I opened a coffee bar at the school. I did everything to make sure that they came back to school and it took me a year. Yeah, because in 2020 we came back and in 2023, I said the start of the academic year in 2023, that was the first year I had the old feeling of the hotel school back. with the study start week, the onboarding program, everything related to that. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (35:56) So, oh my God, that is a change on your side, but also on the students, of course. I want to know from you, how do, because they are digital native, the students of today, you make them come to school right after COVID, which I think is a very smart thing to do. But how do digital native students learn differently from previous generations? Because you said earlier, there is a big gap between those, between the old way and the new way, the new age. Marco Ten Hoor (36:01) Yeah. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (36:26) How do they learn, the digital native students of today learn differently from previous generations? Marco Ten Hoor (36:36) They have to see examples. They have to see what's going on. And they need to know that if you... the screen can still be a certain distance. There's a certain distance. So if we are sitting at the same table... Then you see also the body language, you see also the way if you don't feel comfortable, you see also when they focus on other things, how they walk in, how they walk out. So what we said was first of all we have to make sure that they have the hospitality feeling. and all the staff, all the teachers and everybody was on board on that. We need to bring back the old hospitality feeling in the school. Of course we have the new age of education and everything, but still the hostmanship, that's what we implemented at that time. Hostmanship, it's all about that. make sure that people feel welcome. And if they feel welcome at the school, so I did that to the staff and to the teachers and everybody. And my MT did that. And then it starts also with the onboarding weeks to welcoming weeks and things like that. And okay, you're a part of the community and repeat it, repeat it, repeat it. And I did every month a message to the students. during COVID time, I did a digital message and make the video and the newsletter for that. But in the beginning, I noticed they didn't read it. didn't do it. And they say, you didn't read it. ⁓ so then you don't know. Then you need also you can be they are digital natives, but they're also selective in what they want to see. the Future of Hospitality (38:18) ⁓ Because there's so much information coming their way, I mean our way, there's so much information. So you said ⁓ they're very selective and how do they select what's important and whatnot? Because apparently, okay, that's what you teach them. Marco Ten Hoor (38:30) No. And that's what we learn. that's what we teach them. Because when they start our program, first they have to make an that we do a map style. That's the world of differences. It's a little bit, you can compare it with this. Okay, what kind of color are you? What are your competences? What's in your backpack? What can you learn from others? And that's what they still have to do every... ⁓ Groups assignment, have to do what is your profile and learn from each other. to also to recognize if you're very blue, okay, now you have to take a red role. So you have to be more proactive instead of the... And that's what we try to learn and that's what build up in during the years. And then that's also how they do it in practice because at that time during COVID you couldn't do practice. the Future of Hospitality (39:22) Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's nothing open. Marco Ten Hoor (39:37) but we still did wine tasting online. So what I did with my wine lectures, we delivered many ⁓ bottles of wine and glasses. the Future of Hospitality (39:40) Okay. one you get at the airplane. I mean on board of an aircraft. Sorry. Marco Ten Hoor (39:55) Yeah, and then a bit better quality. But this is how you try. And then we went, we had online wine tasting with 100 students. We did, yeah. the Future of Hospitality (40:07) Online wine tasting with the students. I really like this part. Go ahead. Marco Ten Hoor (40:10) Yeah, so they all had to, so you were at home and then you had to show them that you had your glasses and you have to pull it in. So we did just, yeah, it sounds silly, but it was making connections. And what we also did was a bakery competition online. So we sent them, okay, these are the ingredients and just bake for your family. the Future of Hospitality (40:23) No, I like it. Marco Ten Hoor (40:37) a pie or a cake or whatever and then you have to show us the proof. That's what we did. It was ridiculous of them. the Future of Hospitality (40:48) Yeah, you're really innovative. I can see now why they hire you. I mean, you're like two, three steps ahead of the rest and you try to be innovative to get to the result. Marco Ten Hoor (40:59) Yeah, but you also have to convince, don't forget I had academic staff that they were my teachers. Yeah, so it was, so sometimes you, yeah, sometimes it was changing. Yeah, and I would set everything out of the box. So out of the box, just do it and. the Future of Hospitality (41:09) my gosh. Out of the- Tell me Marco, want to know what, knowing all this and where we are now, I want to know a few little things. What role should you think should the hospitality industry play today in education? Marco Ten Hoor (41:39) They should be aware of their huge part of the education. ⁓ We are not the only ones who educate the future. They are a part of the hotel management schools. They are part of the education. I was really, really disappointed in my industry at COVID because the the graduation phase is in the company. That's our program. You graduate. You research, you thesis, you do that in your, during your internship in the company and in your internship company. And it was March and they send it all the students home and come back later on. And that was in the final part also when you're year four, you graduate in June. So they only had two or three months to go. And I thought, what? You're not even able to help them? And don't forget. The smaller companies did, but the largest companies, I can name all the brands, they just sent them home. And they sent them home. And don't forget what the damage was after that to get back the students, other new students, the new students to do internships there. the Future of Hospitality (42:50) Okay, let's not do that, but you made your points. ⁓ That's an interesting Marco Ten Hoor (43:08) because they underestimate how students are in contact with each other, how the community is in contact with each other. So if you had a bad experience in your internship company, I can tell you. can happen once, but when it happens twice, then no students will go. So you see, yeah, that's what you see. the Future of Hospitality (43:31) Okay, so what can we learn from this? ⁓ What is... Marco Ten Hoor (43:36) that they also are part of the education, that they're a part of the development of those students and don't see them as cheap labor and just do what we do, what we say you have to do. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (43:46) That still happens. I I spoke to a few general managers over the past few, quite a few for this podcast. And I'm really glad to see that there is ⁓ an increase of, yes, you can see the change. They are really, opening their hearts. Also a new way of thinking, okay, I need to approach these people in a different way. Because you're not the first one who said, we have really a complete new generation that needs to be handled in a... Marco Ten Hoor (44:00) You have to shift. ⁓ the Future of Hospitality (44:16) totally different way. you kind of, more or less, you paved the way for that change way before COVID happened, way before this generation appeared and the way before AI ⁓ entered the room, because that's only recently and we still are learning to grasp with AI how to use it. Can you tell me a little bit about how you, I mean, Marco Ten Hoor (44:17) Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (44:46) We were laughing about it. You can barely write AI, but... But tell me, no that was, tell me, you said it yourself. Tell me how you, how you, how do you work with this? With all these net defense, these fast changes. Marco Ten Hoor (45:03) Yeah, because what I also, if you compare to education in the academic world, they all against AI. So what I said to, what I started one and half year ago with the opening of the academic year. So there were 600 students in the classroom. And I said to them, who of you have an AI account? And then only five or six. You are the smart student. You know how it works. But my academic stuff didn't like that. Listen, guys, it's not going to disappear. don't start... Because what you see now is that they don't learn anything because of AI. ⁓ AI is a knowledge factory, I said to them. the Future of Hospitality (45:38) my gosh. Marco Ten Hoor (46:00) So, but what we, our job is to check, are they able to translate the knowledge for themselves? And even if they use AI, in the past, I make copies of books because I had to read the Pauley, I had to read this and I had to read that and then I have to make a report of it. And now we ask AI, what are the newest latest systems of revenue management, for example, or could you come up with a strategy or whatever? the Future of Hospitality (46:07) Yeah. Uh-huh. Marco Ten Hoor (46:29) But it's not about the knowledge. If they copy it one on one, then you have to challenge them. Do you think for yourself? And how did you get to that knowledge? That's what we call programmatic testing. So because you can't, and then you make it more sustainable for the knowledge they gain, then instead of you don't get any points because you got AI. I don't think we shouldn't give any points to assignments. because that's ridiculous because you are an eight and you are a six based on personal opinions. don't know. and now I a restaurant but AI is a tool and we need to use the tool. And ⁓ I'm just I told you I'm just writing my graduation speech because I have graduation coming up in October and then I always start on time. the Future of Hospitality (47:03) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Marco Ten Hoor (47:28) So I said, I did some prompts and gave it to AI, could you write me a pre-arranged speech? This is where my speech is in the past. I want to have a metaphor. I want to do this. I want to do that. And they came up with a quite nice clinic speech. And then I said, no, that's not me. But it gave me some guidelines to work on. the Future of Hospitality (47:49) Yeah, you can mold with it. gives you... That is what AI... Yeah. I fully agree. Marco Ten Hoor (47:51) Yeah, you can mold it. And yeah, so we can say what we want, but don't forget, we have less staff, there's less staff available. We are an industry where the connection is most important when you come into the hotel or the restaurant or any hospitality business. So we need tools to make our other tasks quicker. and still to do the hospitality or hospitable behavior or the hostmanship, how you call it. And knowledge is available. Knowledge is everywhere available. And in the past, knowledge was only... The teacher had the knowledge, he was sending the information and he asked questions at his assignment about the information, he sent it. That's nowadays. One direction, yeah, one way. Yeah. the Future of Hospitality (48:45) Yeah, there was only one channel and now there are multiple channels where one can get their education from. Marco Ten Hoor (48:54) Yeah, so they learn from because learning is about from from industry from from lunch, they learn from the peers, they they learn from from from the academic stock, it's multiple. And it's not just one way. So that's why I said industry, you're so important because they learn from you. I can't tell them how it feels when a guest walk over a five star property and that you have to be this or that. My daughter did one year internship at the Hyatt and in a five star. And she said, I learned so much of the wings of no. I thought, what is that? Explain to me, what is that? We never say no. So if a guest asks something, you don't have it, you don't say no, we don't have it. Then we said, unfortunately, we can organize this or that for you, whatever. So they all learned. things about not to say, you don't say no. So the wings of the, that's the same with the marriage, staff happy, guests happy, things like that. We as educators can't teach that. the Future of Hospitality (50:08) need to learn that in practice. So let me go. Marco Ten Hoor (50:11) Yeah. So the industry has to go inside more of the program. And that's what we do now with the new age of education. the Future of Hospitality (50:19) Okay. All right. Well, I fully agree. just want to, I would love to see how we can make that happen. Because they need to be more involved. The real world industry, the real world hospital. Well, I've told you, but this is like building a bridge to what we're going to launch after the summer vacation. The round table podcasts with hospitality students from different schools. and real world hospitality hotels to be part of that so we can discuss stuff like this. So I already mentioned that, so I'll be happy to invite you to work with us to get that off the ground. All we need is indeed a few hospitality hotel school students, pick a few subjects, and I would love to have these. these conversations, these discussions with industry leaders and upcoming industry leaders from the hotel schools. ⁓ yeah, you play a very important part in that. I think I'm looking forward to that. One last chance before I will close this. I mean, we can talk for hours. That's what I feel. What excites you the most about the next generation of hospitality leaders? So the students that you have. Marco Ten Hoor (51:38) Yeah. What excites me the most is that they, what I see at my students here, the students I have is that they are eager, they hunger and they embrace hospitality. and that's what I also, and that's because of the hospitality industry is coming to the school and being comfortable with students. So they, they, and Maybe that's, I'm lucky with the network that a few of good friends of mine, they really helped me to make it successful. So they said, okay, we're going to help you. And I really thank them every day for what they did. But this is the idea I have. And he said, okay, we help you. And I'm happy that everybody's on board now and that we had our accreditation. all the excellence and the distinctive features and everything. But that's not why I did it. I have to do that because of the government, but I did it because of the generation is really, really eager. And my daughter, she started in 2020 at the hotel management school. And she said at that time, I'm not going to work in hotels. I just do it because she can do it. And I said, okay. And that's what I in 2020 did here and 20. the Future of Hospitality (53:07) Huh? Marco Ten Hoor (53:13) too, also did hear a lot from students. Yeah, we can do much more with hotel management school than other education because the banking, they all love us. Yes, I know that's true. But they love you when you have the foundation of the hospitality industry and then you know how it is to work in there. And I am what I see now with also with my daughters and her all her friends. They all worked in the industry. They love it. They embraced it. It opened their minds. And ⁓ you really see the change. And that's because of the industry. The industry helped me with that. To be involved with the school. To be in the school. Because of each partner, I asked them, if you have a design challenge for my students, you have to be available one or two hours per week. And during Corona time, that was a new... They were easy to have enough time and now they, but now you see, okay, ⁓ it's paying off. So I'm very proud of the industry but also... the Future of Hospitality (54:20) It sounds to me that we get a new generation of hospitality leaders that work way more with their soft skills than with their hard skills. And that is, I'm really glad to hear that. Marco Ten Hoor (54:31) Yes, absolutely. And don't forget they have more in the backpack than we had at that time. the Future of Hospitality (54:39) That's also a good reminder. Marco Ten Hoor (54:40) Because, yeah, they have much more in the backpack than we had at that time. Because when I did my internship, I had to start with the stewarding the first two weeks or whatever. And now they also said, listen, this is the knowledge I have, but this is what I want to develop. And this is what I want to do. Can you help me? Are we a match? Yes or no. And it's not about only about salary or whatever. It's really about the match and company pride. They love company pride. the Future of Hospitality (55:11) Wonderful. Marco, like I said, we can talk for hours. We should have part two, but again, we're gonna do the roundtables with students after the summer vacation. So Marco, thank you so much for being on our show. It was really insightful. There is so much more that we can learn, but thank you so much. Marco Ten Hoor (55:20) the round first. You're welcome. Thank you. It was an honor. Thank you so much. the Future of Hospitality (55:36) Yeah, wonderful. Okay, that was it... "