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the Future of HospitalitySo first of all, can you maybe tell me a little bit about your your experience in in hospitality and how did you get to where you're at the moment at Chico State?

John BroomeYeah. Absolutely. I mean, if you if you go back a long time when I was studying, I spent a lot of time working in hotels. Everything from front desk to service service to a little bit of front house, seating people in the restaurants and stuff like that, bar work, spent spent my time in hospitality and operational type of roles. But then kind of when I graduated, you know, moved moved on and did a lot of different things and landed within product management. In reality, I spent a long time, you know, managing products, building products, focusing a lot on the the usability side and the, you know, customer experience actually using our software. Yeah.

John BroomeIt's kind of a a little bit of kind of a passion of mine. And then I I worked in the travel sector, and then got to know Tony. And then, you know, when we started this venture or other took over this venture, you know, I wanted to join him on it. You know, I kind of see from my travels, over the last ten, fifteen years, I've staying a lot of different hotels, how you know, a lot of hotels, I'm being really, really blunt here, haven't really kept up with the moving technology. But, you know, it's lagging behind still. We know that. So some hotels, definitely, they've got it down. It's it's it's pretty amazing what they've done. There are a lot of other hotels haven't quite got there for various reasons. Why is that? Like, that really always interests me. Like, why are hotels? Because

the Future of Hospitalityif you logically think about it, hotels should be the ones that are adapting technology, like, maybe as the first or second ones because they have so much interaction with people. Why is it that they're lagging, like, the adopting technology?

John BroomeI I I think there's quite a few different reasons for that in reality. I mean, have to let's let's just talk about a few of them. I think one of them is their experience in technology on mass. I think, like, a lot of kind of businesses has been pretty poor historically. They've been stuck with a lot of old technologies. They're promised a lot when it first came around, the first wave of technology. Oh, this is gonna be, like, solution. Suddenly, everything's gonna be fine, and you're gonna get so many benefits out of back of it. It's a little bit like, you know, what what enterprise companies, if, you know, working at those. You know, they were promised ERPs. You know, that's gonna solve everything for you. It has all these different modules. It's gonna work fantastic. Exactly.

John BroomeDidn't do that there either. And I think that was just a little bit the eighties, nineties, etcetera, where there wasn't so much focus in terms of the actual benefits and outcome and working backwards from there. It was a bit kind of inside out in terms of actually what was provided Really. For the promises that they'd failed to deliver. And there's been this big trough of disillusionment. So I think we have that hangover still within business where they go, but we invested so much money in this last time around. You know, we don't really have time for this right now. The fear is still there lodged somewhere in the, you know, the back of people's, you know, memory that this hasn't gone well in the past. This could be the same again, and we've got a business to run. Exactly. You know, we've got operations to run. We've got to service our customer. We need to focus on them.

John BroomeI think the the unfortunate part is the flip side of that means because technology is not being implemented quickly enough now, you're actually doing a disservice for the very thing that should be prioritized, which is hospitality. Exactly. I'm really clear on this in terms of my kind of views and my experiences talking with people is that it's it's a way to enable you at a hotel to actually deliver hospitality is to get rid of those things that actually detract from it. You know, that administration that's being done, time queuing at the front desk, None of that has got anything to do with hospitality. It's getting in the way of it. And if you can remove that, you know, great. And I think there's lots of areas, you know, within the the hotel industry and the hotel actual hotels

the Future of Hospitalitywhere you can do that and use technology in a really good way. Yeah. They they kind of they have to adopt some somewhere somewhere because, yeah, if you don't do it, then others will, and you can't be like otherwise, you lose the whole hospitality kind of thing like you said. But I think that you you gave a good point about that they are always busy because hotels, of course, not like another business, always always running, like, twenty four seven. It would run. So you can't, like, say, let's stop for a week. Let's adopt this nice technology. And if it doesn't work, then we just do something else, and then we go further in with it twenty four seven. Now you can't do it in hospitality. So I think that mindset makes it also different for difficult for those, yeah, c level people there to take the decision to to to do something different and to get to disrupt their current way of working.

John BroomeNo. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I I think one of the things is to, like, flip on his head and actually say, okay. What are the reasons that we we can't move forward in this area if you've kind of identified that, okay. Actually, it would be a benefit, which we'd have those conversations as well. They would love to do this, but we just can't because of x y z. We can talk about that a little bit. And so I flip on his head and actually kind of work through, okay, how do we overcome all those barriers that that that we have? You know, the practical ones. Some of the emotional ones is is is another kind of level of discussion Yeah. In terms of, you know, as a barrier, you know, everything functionally kind of go, yeah. Absolutely. Logically, I can yeah. We can deal with those. Absolutely. Great.

John BroomeBut the emotional kind of thing of getting over, no. We need to actually change something now. We need to develop, and we need to actually kind of implement this. You know, that, I think, is a separate discussion that's really, really important. In some ways, it's actually more important than the the practical practical side of, okay, we have this blocker. Yeah. I mean, if we look at kind of some some of those blockers, I mean, if let's just take one example. One of them would be, you know, we don't have time. Right? Yeah. We're so busy operationally, which, you know, I could get twenty four seven. Absolutely.

John BroomeThe reality is the technology has moved on a lot in the last decade, and definitely in the last five years in terms of hotel industry that the APIs are a lot better in terms of how you integrate different solutions together. There's this argument, should we have all in one solution, or should we have a best in class for every different area? The reality is it's probably some combination. It's different for different hotels and different chains and different sizes and different kind of, I guess, mental models in terms of, you know, what what service design the hotel wants to have Yeah. In terms of how how they interact and how much they use technology and where they use it.

John BroomeBut it's kind of being able to to overcome that with actually modern technology is definitely possible. I think the the first bit is decide what you want first. Have those discussions with people working in the industry, including suppliers, to help you figure that out. Mhmm. And then you can move forward in terms of how to make that that that a reality because there there is a lot of reality in terms of if you're not changing out your core core system, like, you know, you have major ERP or finance system or your major, you know, CRM system or your PMS, that there's a lot of modular bolt ons to those that work very, very well on the PMSs and, different systems. Most of them have good APIs. You can pass all that work onto your your suppliers or your partners. I hope people are starting to see technology providers as partners, and they take risk. Yeah. They of course, you have to sign off. You have control over basically whether it goes live, but let them do all the work. Have that on their shoulders.

John BroomeTo get, you know, bring it up to a safe so you can go, oh, oh, you demoed to me. You can show me what it does, how it works. Yeah. We'll have to sign that up and go live, and that can happen parallel to the ongoing operations. You don't have to stop. You don't have to do it in down Exactly. During during winter. You have that done in parallel, and it's not on your shoulders. Get get get the partners to do it. That's day in day out. Yeah. And then yeah. And the risk is on them, not on you as a hotel. Yeah. They have to prove, they have to deliver, and they have to take

the Future of Hospitalitycare of the rest. And it's a good Absolutely.

John BroomeI know. You know, with with Chico's, and that's what we've kind of been doing, is to really focus on kind of, okay. Think of basically every kind of barrier that, you know, or blocker that, you know, could have in that conversation with hotels about kind of what they're experiencing and what they want to ensure they avoid and how to actually manage those situations ourselves and transfer that risk onto ourselves as cost a company Yeah. That supports hotels and can partner with them. Yes. And I think there's a lot of providers out there, not just ourselves, that do that. And, of course, some go further than others in terms of being outcome focused. Yeah. You we wanna make sure that we're doing. That's a that's a good point. That's a good point.

the Future of HospitalityAnd if we take a step back, like, of course, we can talk about Chico Stay in a few moments and see how you guys look at what's needed in the industry. But what do you see, like, as the biggest challenge in for hotels in delivering, like, a better guest experience? Like, what is the why is it so difficult for them at the moment? What's the biggest challenge there to deliver a better guest experience?

John BroomeOkay. I mean, I I think it's twofold. It comes in different level levels. I think the the first I'm gonna have to take in two two parts, really. I think the first part is that some hotels still they're this they're interpreting basically what guests actually need and want in a different way than guests are actually saying what they need and want. Yeah. I think the expectations is a little bit different between some within the hotel hospitality industry and actually what guests are actually kind of communicating. They're really, really clear right now that they expect digital services. It's coming as standard. You go back six, seven, eight, ten years, and that would not be the case. It'd be a lot more mixed. And it's not just a generational thing. It's actually a that the masses have come on to basically no. I expect to be able to do things via my phone now.

John BroomeI expect to have that option that I choose as a guest how I want to interact. But still, we we do have some conversations where I was like, no. But the guests want to actually speak to us all the time, and they want to come to the front desk. I'm like, no. They actually are saying they want the option to decide how and when and what method they use to interact with you as a hotel. And if you provide that to them, yes. Absolutely. You'll probably end up with a lot of guests still coming to the front desk, etcetera, but the the very nature of your front desk and your your lobby changes from being something which is the administration center to being one that really is about hospitality.

the Future of HospitalityThat's a good point. And it's it's quality over quantity. But maybe In route If I can add my my 2¢, like, maybe that's also part of the, like, way that they think it's difficult to adopt technology because maybe a lot of OTAs, they think, okay. If I do it in a digital way, then I will lose my asset. This is my people that nowadays interact with people on the front desk, etcetera, etcetera. If And we do it with technology, then we kind of lose our biggest asset. We lose our our people because, you know, everybody says, like, you know, people make a difference in hospitality, and I also believe that. But I have to think in a different way, like you said. Like, they have to make a difference not by saying, okay. Which room do you want? Okay. Check computer.

the Future of HospitalityYou know? Just like inputting data, that's not like the human interaction that that you want. They can be way more efficient if they have other ways of interacting with people. And that's what if I understand you correctly, what you mean with hospitality. Right?

John BroomeAbsolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that quality of interaction is really, really important. I've been to some wonderful hotels where there's been no technology to be honest. It's almost like the old kind of back to basically paper and pen type scenario. They did have technology in the background, but it was definitely second nature. That worked for them because of the hotel size. And, actually, kind of, they were in areas where they didn't have lots of other requirements on them. They didn't have to take passport details or maybe they did, but they definitely did. I think, etcetera, etcetera. So the checkers was like, okay. We're expecting you, and, you know, you said what your name was. And, okay, here's your key, and it's a bit of a chat. And they asked me kind of what, you know, what are you wanting to do on your stay, etcetera. And that that was awesome. That was really, really good. I also didn't have to queue. I've had other experiences where with three two young children at the time staying on the queue for over twenty minutes. Yeah. Then, you know, it's a long, long day of, you know, seventeen hours we've been traveling effectively.

John BroomeAnd then you got twenty minutes at the end. It was like, it's late. They're hungry. Yeah. They're crying. They're screaming. They're arguing. They're running around. It's it's just chaos. It's like, do I need to do this just to get the key to get to my room so I can get to the restaurant and. Exactly. So I I I do think, you know, it's it's it's very much a case of, you know, use technology in in the right way to free up your hands in order to service the guests in the way that they that that they want. So it'll give you more options. It comes more concierge, comes more experience orientated in terms of what you can do to make your guest stay better.

John BroomeAnd I think that's what every I don't have never had a conversation with a with a hotel that's going, no. Actually, that's what

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. Demonstration. You want some of that. It's a very service orientated industry where you're trying to create experiences and kind of better kind of emotional connection with guests. And, you know, you can use technology in a very way good way to actually achieve those objectives. Yeah. So can you maybe give an example how technology can leverage the way that you can make an emotional connection with guests? Can I give an example that if you do this, if you implement this technology, for example, not specific Chico stay, it can, you know, create a better emotional connection with your guests if you do it like like this and this?

John BroomeOkay. And I think one of the key things is is very connected to what we just said. Remove those kind of time consuming aspects within your hotel that really add no value. Making I've been gonna choose one that's not cheap, because they're right. Payments. Please make your payments really quick and easy, basically, of tapping the card or your telephone, basically, on the on the point of sale system in order to actually pay for something. That could be for restaurant, the bar, whatever it is. I don't really want to come spend two or three minutes as you try and make payments.

the Future of HospitalityExactly. That's for sure. Especially when you have three three kids, then you don't want to you don't want wait at all. But but how does it make that emotional connection? So that's okay. Payment. I did, put my phone on the on the bleep,

John Broomeand I paid. What now? It's very much it's very much about freeing up time in that particular example to free up time in order that you the emotional connections can be on a a person to person basis, between, you know, the hotel staff and also, guests. From a digital perspective, absolutely, you can personalize, actually use personalization. So you have a lot of data at your fingertips when you start to use digital services, and you need to be able to leverage that. And I think there comes kind of a whole chain of things that you then need to get comfortable with as kind of owning hotels and being in hoteliers or working, it's a matter of any type of hospitality, including restaurants, of actually utilizing data and collecting data to enable you to actually personalize experiences for guests that come back. Whether that be kind of a guest that stays at your hotel once and then, you know, they're there for five days, you start to gauge a picture about kind of who they are, what they like, what's important to them, and you marry marry up that, basically, knowledge that you have from actually the personal interactions along with the data that you have from from their activities to actually be able to actually provide them suggestions, etcetera, about what they they can do. Obviously, the bigger change is using their loyalty schemes and their CRM systems, and they kind of have background data. But there's a lot of opportunities to say within the, I guess, the the journey, the overall let's say it's the overall customer guest journey, staying at your hotel all the way from the kind of the prebooking all the way through their kind of journey towards basically their post day experience. So I should say, how can we actually make this more personable? Yeah. How can we personalize their specific experience based on what they want? If I'm going somewhere on business or we're going somewhere on business, my expectations are actually different than when I'm traveling, when I'm with my three children and my my family. Yeah. And that's what I would like to be offered. You know? I I think, you know, you have to think to your hotel experiences, the services, the products, etcetera, where being able to actually kind of personalize experience from okay. Let's just take this up. It's probably easier.

John BroomeI'm with my family. Please help me out with, basically, kind of, you know, stuff for the restaurants. Please kind of maybe some excursions, kind of recommend those to me. I'm really open for that in terms of my stay. And if something pops up, especially in digital experience, you know, the upselling solution in my phone, it's very easy to access. I'll be like, oh, hang on a minute. That sounds interesting. Maybe I'll actually ask the front desk in concierge about that a little bit more Agree. See kinda what they've said, or maybe that information is actually available in my phone. I can go, okay. Actually, that's a nice thing to do tomorrow or the day after. True. Let's actually put that in to do that.

John BroomeAnd all that adds to actually creating some sort of emotional connection. I don't think it's in any way a full on substitute for the in person experience. I still think you know, I provide we provide digital solutions, But I think it works very, very well in tandem with actually what you do in terms of interacting Yeah. The combination. Inside the hotel, actually utilizing a leveraging technology to make that experience even better. And that will actually create some emotional connection between your hotel, your brand. That's a good one. Yes. Because I think So it's not either or, it's it's actually a both. That's that's really a good one, I think, because that that that it's the both

the Future of Hospitalitypeople have to recognize because sometimes they think, okay, personalization, doing it via digital way, like, you know, like you said, on the app, they see like upsell opportunities, they see like all the information in the app. That's also personalization. But when you combine it with the people and, of course, teach them how to leverage the data that you get from those digital assets that you have, that's like the the ultimate combination of personalization. Because if it's only digital, I think like the hoteliers at the moment, they think like we lose the human aspect, and that's what's holding them back of adopting it.

John BroomeThe the human aspect is still really important. There are going to be, basically, brands that basically go nowhere and no touch experience. I think it's absolutely fine. Because when you actually select in that particular hotel, you you understand that. But I think the vast majority of the industry still is basically based on human interaction. I really hope that that continues. So I would just like to see that there was a a partnering and a marrying up of basically what's possible with digital, again, with what's possible, you know, on face to face and actually utilizing it to enable you to do more of that and do it in a better way, do it more effectively and efficiently. And I think that's really important for hotels.

John BroomeThere's not an, you know, ever expanding amount of money that you can kind of throw into all your investments and operations. That's just not the way it works. Yeah. But there is a lot of benefits to kind of marrying those two up together in a in a really good way to to to create that kind of service for your particular hotel and your particular brand that that you want. True. True.

the Future of HospitalityAnd maybe something else that I just pops in my mind is that, like, I know that a lot of new generations that work at hotel, they have, like, problems with creating a small talk about stuff because they they prefer everything digital. And it's difficult for them to, like, be the first to create a con conversation with with a guest because they're not used to it. Like, I'm talking about the generation that's now, like, 20 years old, 22. They're used to do everything digitally. So I think that when you have something that digital asset, like, for example, ChicoStay or whatever it is, that can trigger the guests about all kinds of digital, all kinds of things you can do in hotel, then he can come up with questions to your staff, and it makes it easier to to create a conversation about something. Because the staff at the moment, they find it very hard to create a conversation. You know? They start talking about politics or something like that, but that's not what you want. You wanna talk about something that that can add them value, not like the house, the weather, and those kind of stuff.

John BroomeYeah. No. I think you're a 100100% correct there. I mean, I I think that is something that I I don't think it's actually just new for this generation. I know there's kind of this kind of generational thing of generalizing because that's what, you know, the data says. I I think that's been the case. So, basically, the majority of people that actually communication is a skill that you develop over time, and it gets better as you get older. And, you know, I'm I'm not anywhere close to generation z anymore, unfortunately. But, you know, I I think every single generation, could probably say the same thing if you truly look back at where you kind of were at 20 years old in terms of skills that you have and actually the skills that you have now, for me, it's, like, nearly thirty years later. You know? Is it you know, am I better at communicating now than I was then? Oh, yeah.

John BroomeI mean, so I agree to. Yet in any case. But, yeah, I I think that really is the important bit, isn't it? But, you know, it's a skill. Having prompts really, really kind of helps in terms of actually being to engage in the in the right way around, basically, you know, answering the questions and having that conversation that leads to a deeper type of conversation in general between, basically, hotel staff and Yes. And guests. I mean, I think there's another point here when you talk where you mentioned about the personalization upselling. Absolutely. I think one of the things is that, you know, I I I joke about this, but if I've been queuing in a queue for fifteen minutes, would I be receptive to absolutely anything the front front desk staff tried to sell me? Definitely, I'm with my kids, when when I'm alone, it's bad enough, and the answer is no. Yeah. If I was with my kids or family or on a random empty weekend No way. Honest, it would be a certain no. And, it would actually can't be counterproductive to your brand and actually how I thought about you as a hotel if you try and sell me, where you kind of can see that the the guest is irritated. The reality is when it's also with an app, you're turning it into basically something of an offer, which is at no. Nobody gets offended with basic people saying no. They don't want to buy something. Yeah. It's in in that sense, it's a little bit impersonal because it's like, okay. I just ignore it. I don't buy it, but I want it. But you have the opportunity to actually put that in front of them, and they go, not now, but actually, wait a minute. I actually feel like I do want that a little bit later, and I'm gonna ask about that or I'll go back to my app and then I'll buy it because it's on your terms as a guest and as as a, I guess, an app user. But as a guest, it's on your terms. Exactly. Of buying the site when I'm gonna purchase something and buy something to enhance my experience as opposed to, you know, the other way around. You actually do feel like you're being sold to. You have very, very skillful salespeople, but the reality is it's flipping that in terms of now I actually feel like I'm being sold to, and it's just Exactly. For sale. You can actually balance it up a little bit by careful combination of the both in both in terms of how you work with basically trying to offer something that the guest actually wants Yeah. For this. You know, that can be so many different things, and that's about knowing your guests and getting back to actually kind of having data and insights. And, hopefully, guests, you know, sharing stuff voluntarily with you, not feeling like being forced. Yeah. That's the forced part. It's not why you go to a hotel, of course.

the Future of HospitalityNo. But I think that's a good point that you said, like, it's kind of also a snowball effect that whenever it starts, like, with a fifteen minute queue and you come to the front desk, you're already in a bad mood, then you start to sell it to force or something, the mood is still bad. And then it's like a snowball effect that it that it's, like, hard to get out of it, emotional that you're not ready to buy anything, and you don't like this hotel. And the opposite way, of course, if everything goes smooth and you even if he tries to not really force it, but he says it, and he's like, you're already primed in your mind that, okay. Nice. You know? Good experience.

the Future of HospitalityYou go back to your your your room. You see, like, in the app or whatever, like, you see it again what he said. And it's all about having that that first step should be, like, the most important step. The first impression, like, of the hotel is, like, creating a snowball effect from my experience. So if I go as a guest and if I don't like the the first five minutes, then I know that my first five hours will also be like, I'm looking for for shit to call it like this.

John BroomeYeah. I mean, I think that's I think that's that that's that's really, really true in terms of basically those interaction points. I mean, I I think, you know, I I kind of and that's kind of discussions, you know, with with hotel managers and also kinda with colleagues in the industry or even kinda some of our competitors have been like, you know, I don't know if it's my face they can tell. I'm not sensitive to actually being sold to. But in the hundreds and hundreds of hotels I've been stayed in, I've got a few free upgrades where, you know, maybe they thought it was good. So I should give you guys give me something. I sound like I'm a horrible person.

John BroomeYou know? I I think my face just gives away something like, oh, this is not something But when I talk to other people, they're like, no. I haven't ever really been sold something either, you know, at front desk. And it's kinda like, well, maybe there's something in that that, you know, if I was actually on the other side, and I have been, they've much earlier in my career. You know, if I'm actually handling lots of customers, there's big queues there. It's in my first thought to think, I'm gonna offer this guest something. Irrespective of basically how they look. I'm overloaded. I've got a queue of people. I want them to check them in as soon as possible. I can feel that they're getting irritated Exactly. Of having to wait. But, you know, I'm gonna suggest something for them that might enhance no. They're they're thinking, I need to kind of make sure that they can get into that room Yeah. And then I can actually speak to the next guest. Exactly. Like a transaction.

the Future of HospitalityTransaction. Transaction. Next.

John BroomeExactly. And then they maybe have a lull, but, you know, then it's basically, okay. They're probably doing something well, they are doing something else instead of just checking people in. But that opportunity kind of has disappeared then. Yeah. So we take away some of those pressures. If you want to have the the same staffing on your front desk and not having less people, though, for some hotels, that's definitely kind of an option that they can kind of choose is that, you know, they'll each guest will a 100% of each guest will know what you have to offer as a hotel beyond the bed, and that is really, really important. So they may buy it straight away. They may just ask questions about it. They may speak to, you know, the front desk, but they'll then have time to actually discuss it. Because right now, a lot of hotels don't, and it's I talk about it like a hidden shop Yeah. Of goods.

John BroomeAnd it it really is like that. They've got it in some warehouse out the back. It's locked up. No guest has ever seen it. It's gathering dust, etcetera, etcetera. You know, the allergists can go on and on. But the reality is you need to actually be able to put what you have as a hotel in front of your guests in order for them to actually buy. And you start there with with the basics, And then you can kind of Yeah. Leverage it. Work on how do we talk to guests about, etcetera, etcetera. But if you're not ever showing it, nobody's gonna know it exists, and you're not talking about it. You're better off actually not having it. That's that's 100% true.

the Future of HospitalityAnd if we talk a little bit about ChicoStay, like, of course, you guys do you do a lot. From what I've seen on the website, I got a lot of features. But if you can choose one, what is, like, for you, like, the most, like, game changer that hotels that don't use anything and now once you use Chico Sele, they say, like, this can change everything or a lot for you.

John BroomeI mean, really, this is basically a communication route in terms of basically kind of how you can communicate throughout, like, guest post booking guest journey with guests. So one kind of I I don't think it really is one feature. I think it's a combination of capabilities that enables you. Sorry. I mean, I have to say that. I was But, I mean, being able to check-in really, really quickly does know one thing. It enables you basically to to basically jestle that admin from your front desk and actually kind of drive down costs. And the the reason is to give you options in terms of how you want to interact with your guests, get back to actually those those quality conversations with guests, not the, you know, the endless increasing amounts of administration. And there's there's more ID verification going on. There's there's Exactly. Etcetera. It is expanding rather than contracting the amount of work that needs to be done.

John BroomeAnd, you know, offer basically your guests basically the services you have as a hotel. Treat them as kind of your guests before they actually arrive at the hotel. Communicate with them. As soon as that booking's made, whether it's from your website or it's actually via an OTA, get that connection with the guests. Exactly. That sort of kind of solution actually helps that so that you can communicate directly with your guests and get them to preregister, you know, check-in or reg do their registration card early while they check-in, communicate with them, let them know let them know what services and products you have as a hotel that can enhance their stay. You know, that's anything from basically the restaurant, the spa, you know, every hotel is different, or just being able to check-in early. Exactly. But the timing is very important. Right? The timing you do things, that is very important. Like, if you greet somebody a week after you just booked a room, it's different than five minutes if you just booked.

the Future of HospitalityThose kind of Absolutely.

John BroomeAbsolutely. And you can with tools like ours, you can basically customize basically those those flows and actually what you offer at what points in time along that journey to when they're receptive. I mean, room upgrades, stuff like that, if you booked in in advance, you know, absolutely five minutes after they just booked, go, hey. Do wanna upgrade? It's probably not the best best converting sale you're ever gonna do. But I think it's tied to close towards time when it may be payday, etcetera. I think, actually, you know, at the time I booked, I was thinking, you know, I wanted this. Actually, now we can have the, you know, the sweets or something overlooking the water, etcetera. Exact. You know, that then maybe becomes comes an option. They are receptive to that. And it's, again, it's on their it's on it's on them. You present it to them. They put it Yeah. It's it's a it's a it's a soft sell approach rather than some some kind of hard sell type of strategy. It really a sell in terms here's what your options are. Why don't you enhance your stay, etcetera, and make the most of it. And often, you know, that is the case. And to be honest, there's been plenty of times when if I've been offered stuff, I probably would have. And I think lots of people have gone, oh, yeah. I can have that little bit extra. Yeah.

John BroomeI can skip having to source it out. Oh, wow. You know, that food, that atmosphere, your restaurant is fantastic. I didn't actually realize. You know, you need to provide all that information upfront so that people, you know, arriving at 07:00 at night and checking in. We go, hang a minute. Let's not actually try and find something else on the town. Let's actually just actually, you know, have you have a really nice meal at the restaurants in the hotel. I agree. A lot lot of hotels have amazing restaurants. Yeah. We're making more.

the Future of HospitalityBut that's that's indeed all about timing. I can say from my own experience that if at the moment I'm booking something and, you know, I mean, it's open mindset from, you know, let's have a nice trip. You know, if it costs a little bit more, you say, like, okay. Let's do it. You're not like yeah. That's how I work at it at least, like, checking all the the prices. Like, yeah. It's a little bit cheaper. You're like in that mindset, let's buy. You know? That's the you're in a buying mindset. So but if I'm going to check-in and I'm with my kids, then I'm in that you know? I want my kids to have some food and let them sleep. That's my mindset at that moment. So that in regards to timing, if you do it if you try to upsell somebody when he's in the first mindset, then it's a soft sell. But if you try to sell him something when he's in the queue with three kids, then it's kind of a very hard sell and you try to force it. So the same thing, although I want I I can want it in both times, but the the way you set it and when you set it, that makes all the difference nowadays.

John BroomeAbsolutely. And it's basically you're either basically plus points for your brand or you're the you're very you're definitely on the negative. That's a good thing. Yeah. So it's really or plus or minus. It's not in the middle. No. So I I think it's very much a case of being very, very strategic, basically, with your thinking about how you want to work with it. And work with partners, you know, that have done this. They've got experience. You know, since you can take a lot of that kind of heavy lifting off your shoulders, you can work with them in terms of kind of getting the experience, those touch points in the way that you want them as a hotel. And each hotel is has a slightly different brand that wants to do it slightly differently, but utilize basically partners that, you know, have been there, have done it, have actually worked with other hotels. I think that's kind of that's really important. I agree. I agree.

the Future of HospitalityAnd maybe one of our last questions, if we can talk a little bit about your vision about the future of hospitality. What do you see as, like how will it look like in the next five years? Like, what do you think will change in regards to, for example, guest experience or hospitality in general?

John BroomeWhat is your vision on that? I think we're I think we're already on the start of that journey in reality now. I think it's gathering momentum. I think there will be a lot more kind of digitization used across kind of hospitality. I think it'll actually become streamlined and actually fit seamlessly with actually what you want to do in person in terms of experience. I think that in terms of basically how the tools will be used, it will be kind of, you know, digital check-in and digital journey. The communication kind of methods you kind of interact with your hotel will be better. I think in terms of, you know, from a technology side of things, you know, there's a lot of talk about, you know, artificial intelligence or, you know, machine learning actually kind of using large language models in terms of actually kind of how you communicate and actually kind of how you deliver products to guests. For me, that's very much, you know, on the how. But I think, you know, there'll be more products that incorporate basically kind of modern technologies and capabilities in a way that is actually geared towards improving guest experience.

John BroomeMhmm. I think there's more experience experimentation going on right now. But if you kind of look in the rearview mirror in five years' time, it you we won't be talking about it. So the cycle has been going on throughout my software development career, twenty twenty plus years in terms of algorithms and how to use that in the best possible way. This is another iteration of it, and that will continue. But, hopefully, we get beyond talking about actually how it's done, and we start talking about actually what guests actually need to actually create a better experience, actually make hotels more successful. I think definitely my final point would be, you know, I would say probably one in five hotels there right now, and they're kind of you know, they're they're they're kind of leading the way.

John BroomeIt's up to all the others. One way or the another, they're going to have to actually kind of follow There's only two route routes they're gonna go. One is basically gonna hotels will sort out themselves, and they'll actually kind of incorporate basically these techniques to for for a better future. Or, unfortunately, the gap will get wider towards those that have, and they they they become sitting ducks actually for the larger brands, etcetera, you know, to Yes. To take them over and kind of improve that experience. Has really grown. Yeah. With such technology

the Future of Hospitalitycapabilities, if you don't adapt, the gap will almost be, like, unclosable.

John BroomeExactly. So it's better to actually start now and start kind of on that journey. You'll learn very, very quick. You'll work with partners, have a lot of knowledge, and it's definitely possible to kind of just turn it around. So it's actually kind of part of your business, part of your business model in your kind of hotel strategy. It'll become kind of very much more normal in terms of day to day operations for you in terms of how you work with it. Yeah. Cool.

the Future of HospitalityNice. Nice. And do you have something else to add that I didn't ask or should I should ask? Do think, like, this is something people need to know, need to hear?

John BroomeI mean, I think it it rolls on from what I was just saying. I think it's if you're nervous about this we talked about this a little bit at the start. I don't think we went into it in-depth. You know, I think there's that kind of realization that something needs to be done for a lot of hotel owners. There's also nervousness about the risks or actually how to kinda make it happen. Now please, whether you use us or not, you know, speak to companies like like ourselves that work with this all the time and have the experience, and you'll gather a lot of knowledge in terms of actually how to derisk, how to make it so it's not a big impact in your operations, and how to fit that into your and actually kind of influence your hotel strategy.

John BroomeIt's actually not as difficult or as risky as it probably appears right now. So take that first step now,

the Future of Hospitalityand then the rest of the process will actually kind of go lost than you probably expect. Yeah. Good one. I I really like what you said in the beginning of the conversation. Like, people have to make of course, it's a rational decision that you make in regards to ROI and how does it work, but you also have to be emotionally, like, good with it and to give that emotional stamp to yourself that this is a good decision. And it can only be made, in my opinion, if you are proactive in looking at technology. Because if you do something reactive because others do it, then it's not the right, yeah, how would I say, like, my right mindset to do it. And you always kind of lose because you are not there yet emotionally.

the Future of HospitalityAnd if you are proactive and you learn about it, read about it, talk about it, and then you start doing something, it's it's way more in your systems than just saying, okay. Do we need this tool? Let's do it, and Monday, we can go live. That's it.

John BroomeYep. Abs absolutely. Conversations are really important in that process. Now it's it's, again, change management. It takes it takes a while to kind of change our behaviors or change our thoughts. Those are conversations that help you to kind of at your own speed, you know, kind of kind of do that.

the Future of HospitalityExactly. I I think we're out of time here, John.

John BroomeThank you very much. It's it's been fantastic talking to you. Yeah. You liked it? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I I hope, basically, all the listeners also can get some value out of it. I'm always kind of open for a for a good discussion. There's there's lots for, you know, for myself still to learn, and it's the conversation that enable that. I totally agree.